hi guys
im pretty new to music production so my knowledge is not all that so take it easy on me.i read recently that all elements of a track should be in key with the root note of the main lead,therefore the kick drum all other percussive elements and pads etc would be assigned to the same key.
i was just wondering if this is true or am i being mislead.i would be grateful if anybody could share some light on the subject
pitch in house tracks
-
- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
that assertion is really just kind of simplistic. take it with a mountain of salt.
'in key' refers usually to a very limited set of criteria. to think in terms of that for all aspects of an arrangement, or 'mix' is going to be severely limiting, and not in a very informed way.
for starters: percussion isn't usually pitched. To arbitrarily decide to define all the percussion as 'pitched, in key' is clueless as to the nature of this kind of sound.
it's better to think in terms of 'does it sound good' at this stage of the game, until you have more information at your disposal.
'in key' refers usually to a very limited set of criteria. to think in terms of that for all aspects of an arrangement, or 'mix' is going to be severely limiting, and not in a very informed way.
for starters: percussion isn't usually pitched. To arbitrarily decide to define all the percussion as 'pitched, in key' is clueless as to the nature of this kind of sound.
it's better to think in terms of 'does it sound good' at this stage of the game, until you have more information at your disposal.
-
- KVRAF
- 7791 posts since 20 Jul, 2004 from Clearwater
Well you didn't ask a hip hop question so there's nothing to worry about. 
Wavsen.com - Professional mix delivery platform with client approval, watermarking, and portfolio page builder.
-
- KVRAF
- 8237 posts since 22 Sep, 2008 from Windsor. UK
ben123 wrote:i also heard that you should tune bass to the key of the kick drum.is this also untrue
very untrue
do what sounds good is probably the best advice, along with a lifetime of frustrated practise
Soundcloud | Facebook |
-
- KVRian
- 1084 posts since 12 Sep, 2008 from Your basement
I have about a hundred or two hundred kick samples lying around my hard drive. Most are unpitched and do not interfere with a lead or bass or other instrument. But a few are quite pitched and some of these ring a looong time.ben123 wrote:i also heard that you should tune bass to the key of the kick drum.is this also untrue
If the latter is the case and it's booming along to an unmistakable Eb and your bass line is in E or D or A or something, then it's likely to disturb your listener's establishment of key (and sound bad in the process).
If you tune one or the other to the same pitch or a related pitch, it could help.
But even this "rule" is not a rule. maybe you'll crank up your monitors with all that Eb against A going on and think, "My God! That's so good!"
What you're reading is just someone's idea. Now that you're producing your own music, you can certainly listen to all the ideas and try them out, but you'll be the final judge on any and all such matters.
-
- KVRian
- 1313 posts since 3 Aug, 2008 from where the streets have names
ben123 wrote:i also heard that you should tune bass to the key of the kick drum.is this also untrue
The thing is that if you don't want to have big warbles because of weird harmonies, it is not a bad idea to have at least a couple of tones in difference or the same. Let's say that a big low tom(or kik but usualy the kik is in a register of it's own) sounds in C and your bass line mostly start on C#, you may have some weird warbles if both are in a same register.
It's easier to have these types of pitch problems with timpani or some low toms or percs. A kik drum is often to low for your ear to perceive the "real" pitch of it.
But it's all a matter of taste at the end, sometimes dissonances is what people are looking for.
It's always good to know your keys, it will save you some time too.
Have fun!
Last edited by ozmoz2008 on Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
-
- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
so a disclaimer for anything I ever said about a kick drum in this forum may be in order: when you use that term, to me it means a kick drum, which is a drum with a kick pedal, or a sample of this which is made to sound like the thing itself. it's a complex and rather indefinitely pitched phenomena, which doesn't ring a very long time. Even a bass drum in the orchestra or marching band, a much bigger drum, undamped does not ring very long. I have at least one of these which is very 'musically' tuned, and certainly sits with certain bass tones a lot better than others. That isn't to say 'I tuned it to B0'... but it might stick out a bit more 'in F', dependingOgg Vorbis wrote:I have about a hundred or two hundred kick samples lying around my hard drive. Most are unpitched and do not interfere with a lead or bass or other instrument. But a few are quite pitched and some of these ring a looong time.ben123 wrote:i also heard that you should tune bass to the key of the kick drum.is this also untrue
But, I'm from ancient times. 'A kick drum' now appears to mean, to many people, some type of synthesizer patch which has more or less the same function as a kick drum in a track. and as far as I can tell is a less complex ie more easily defined phenomena.
as far as any absolute statement, 'you should tune bass to the key of the kick drum', it's not a true statement unless it works in every case, and that's probably not true.
-
- KVRist
- 326 posts since 12 Sep, 2008 from Trappe MD
On the 'note' of pitched percussion, I once adjusted the pitch of a bongo to fit a song's key and it sounded MUCH better. Then again the bongo sample I used had a pretty defined pitch...if it REALLY sounds like it doesn't work, try running it through a program or plugin that finds it's root key/pitch and adjust the pitch to fit your key. I wouldn't suggest messing with hihats, kicks, snares, or most percussion. Also, the toms that are kind of 808ish can be tuned to fix some pitch problems. For example, the 808 toms I usually encounter are the pitch of C. If I'm playing the note C# or B there will be a weird dissonance effect. As before mentioned, don't do it unless it REALLY sounds like it needs it. Oh, and the kicks that have several harmonics, unlike 808 kicks, shouldn't be tuned to the track unless it ends in a definite key/pitch. Yeah, there are exceptions. Well, I'm rambling. Time to shut up. 
Hope this somehow helps you or anyone else reading. 
Hope this somehow helps you or anyone else reading. GENERATION 30: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
-
- KVRist
- 211 posts since 28 Apr, 2009 from Ft. Lauderdale, FL
I've never tuned my drums to the key of the song. Sounds like it would be a bit of a pain to do so, because my singer has me change the key every so often, depending on how well her voice is able to carry the melody.
I would probably only do it if I had timpani parts in my music. When I had a E-mu Proteus, it was really easy to change the tuning from equal temperament to pelog, 19-tone, etc. and sometimes it sounded really good, but it wasn't in the key of the song, definitely.
I'd say give it a try, see which way sounds better, and go with that.
I would probably only do it if I had timpani parts in my music. When I had a E-mu Proteus, it was really easy to change the tuning from equal temperament to pelog, 19-tone, etc. and sometimes it sounded really good, but it wasn't in the key of the song, definitely.
I'd say give it a try, see which way sounds better, and go with that.
-
- KVRist
- 296 posts since 9 Feb, 2009
The thing with kick drums, is that on a bass heavy system, the kick and bass can create a distinct rhythmic pulse of there own, and sometimes when the kick and bass both contain lots of sub content and they are both in very different keys, it can actually sound a little bit silly and not very dancable. But this all depends on the style of music and the bassline's pattern. Sometimes the difference sounds funky, sometimes just silly. It really depends on the track.
The best thing to do is put a low-pass on the kick and bass and listen to the sub melody they are creating together. It either works or it doesn't.
With other percussion, again, i think it depends on the track, but if a sound like a hi-hat or bongo has a really clear and obvious note to it, then i'll definitely tune it. I often tune to a key that harmonizes with the root key, rather than the actual root key. Everything tuned to the root note can also sound rather silly IMO.
There is something to be said for untuned percussion creating a wild and natural feel to dance music, but some sounds have such a clear note to them, that if you don't tune, they will subtract rather than add to the track, because they will be interfering with the track's melodic elements. Something to think about if you're making house or trance, but not so important if you're making hard techno. Though, if you're making hard, unmelodic music, i would say the kick tuning still comes into play.
The best thing to do is put a low-pass on the kick and bass and listen to the sub melody they are creating together. It either works or it doesn't.
With other percussion, again, i think it depends on the track, but if a sound like a hi-hat or bongo has a really clear and obvious note to it, then i'll definitely tune it. I often tune to a key that harmonizes with the root key, rather than the actual root key. Everything tuned to the root note can also sound rather silly IMO.
There is something to be said for untuned percussion creating a wild and natural feel to dance music, but some sounds have such a clear note to them, that if you don't tune, they will subtract rather than add to the track, because they will be interfering with the track's melodic elements. Something to think about if you're making house or trance, but not so important if you're making hard techno. Though, if you're making hard, unmelodic music, i would say the kick tuning still comes into play.