KVR Audio

normalson · Post by **normalson** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:43 pm

Hi, if this is the wrong area, could a mod move this thread to the best place for it? thanks.

so i haven't really seen it before but i think it would be extremely helpful for beginners to have a sort of cheat sheet that illustrates common drum programming of different genres, and their respective BPM

for example house, kick on 1,2,3,4 snare on 2,4, high hats on .....etc.

graphically listed like you would see it on a sequencer or tracker would be great. I could do the graphics if others could help with the info.

even better would be additional info, like common fills, common breaks, ways to change the programming to give it life would be most excellent.

thanks.

kajiotaku · Post by **kajiotaku** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:08 pm

You'd be better off just listening to the music. Most house/trance/electronic is just a kick on every beat and open hihat in between and a few shakers and other random percussion through in there like X--xX-x-X--xX-x-X Also, just import some MIDIs and look at the programming from there.

normalson · Post by **normalson** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:21 pm

lol somehow i didn't think do use some midi files and go from there.

thanks. if i come up with a guide based on that i'll post it here.

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:38 pm

I don't think it's anywhere near as simple as that. I don't think there's any good reason to limit the way you program drums for any particular track just because there's some sort of pressure to conform to a standard way of programming them for a particular genre.

You're severely limiting your creativity if you do that.

aquar · Post by **aquar** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:56 pm

robojam wrote:I don't think it's anywhere near as simple as that. I don't think there's any good reason to limit the way you program drums for any particular track just because there's some sort of pressure to conform to a standard way of programming them for a particular genre.

You're severely limiting your creativity if you do that.

Not sure I agree.
Nearly every genre has clichés or templates that are very useful time savers.
Why waste time trying to re-invent the wheel?
Sure once the basic rules are understood yeah go crazy break them up a bit, refine and twist to taste but not before coz most likely it'll sound like CREATIVE crap.

TristezaOrange · Post by **TristezaOrange** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:00 pm

I would love to have a list of time-signatures for different genres of music rather than a drum programming guide. I think I can figure that out for myself. Now, with time-sigs I sometimes get lost, especially exotic, non-western (eg. balkan, carribean) stuff. I'm a master of 6/8, 3/4 and 4/4 but anything outside that has me scratching my head (as far as recognizing the time signature goes).

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:02 pm

aquar wrote:
robojam wrote:I don't think it's anywhere near as simple as that. I don't think there's any good reason to limit the way you program drums for any particular track just because there's some sort of pressure to conform to a standard way of programming them for a particular genre.

You're severely limiting your creativity if you do that.
Not sure I agree.
Nearly every genre has clichés or templates that are very useful time savers.
Why waste time trying to re-invent the wheel?

To be original?

Might just be me, but I find no enjoyment in doing what has been done before.

sockofgold · Post by **sockofgold** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:06 pm

This thread makes me sad.

MoreDread · Post by **MoreDread** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:15 pm

http://www.amazon.com/Drum-Machine-Patt ... 308&sr=8-1

aquar · Post by **aquar** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:54 pm

robojam wrote: To be original?

Might just be me, but I find no enjoyment in doing what has been done before.

You are starting to sound pretentious.
Don't tell me you have re-written the rules on harmony and have created an instrument that conforms to nothing ever heard before? Now that's original.
If so accept my sincere apology otherwise all you are doing is taking an existing framework that has evolved over many centuries and are putting your own little spin on it.
Might be slightly original but I am betting the bulk or core of your stuff is not as original as you may think.

normalson · Post by **normalson** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:05 pm

i know this is the internet and people like to voice any and all opinions but i'm not sure why this thread would make a person sad.

i'm a beginner asking for beginner help, i've spent hours experimenting with different drum patterns in renoise, and without any structure or guidiance i have been creating like aquar put it, creative crap.

i liken this to someone getting sad because a person asked for help on how to write a five-point essay. there is a structure and flow to most things creative.

thanks for the link to that drum programming book, found some other links and i'll do some more searching.

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:16 pm

aquar wrote:
robojam wrote: To be original?

Might just be me, but I find no enjoyment in doing what has been done before.
You are starting to sound pretentious.

Really? Because I state that I don't like doing what has been done before? I think you need to buy a dictionary and look up the word 'pretentious'.

aquar wrote:Don't tell me you have re-written the rules on harmony and have created an instrument that conforms to nothing ever heard before? Now that's original.

Firstly the hyperbole is your input to the conversation, not mine.

Secondly the rules of harmony have very little to do with drum patterns. (Might want to start doing some reading on music theory there if you think that harmony is relevant to instruments of indefinite pitch).

aquar wrote:If so accept my sincere apology otherwise all you are doing is taking an existing framework that has evolved over many centuries and are putting your own little spin on it.

In what way is putting my own spin one something unoriginal?

aquar wrote:Might be slightly original but I am betting the bulk or core of your stuff is not as original as you may think.

Slightly original is good enough for me. Not sure why you're even looking for a problem with what I wrote.

Signal chain · Post by **Signal chain** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:44 pm

Ok if you do one bar loop, divide it to 16nth right, now see these numbers

1-3-5-7-9-11-13-15 and you're always in the safe field (your soup).

2-4-6-8-10-12-14-16 without them it's a boring soup but beware use them just a little (the salt on your soup).

now you have one bar loop copy it and make a little variation in the second bar ...

now you have a two bars loop which is good to start .........

from now on it's only a matter of small variation, stops and go, littletricks,

make it groovie, check the velocities,use of effects ....

the choise of samples determines the genre, more then the pattern sequence you

choose which could be more or less the same from kalipso to IDM.

start from here and in less then ten years you're done,

well this is what I've learnt so far ...

cheers marco.

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:47 pm

MoreDread wrote:http://www.amazon.com/Drum-Machine-Patt ... 308&sr=8-1

thats actually not a bad book for learning some basic drum patterns, stuff you prob wouldnt know like afro cuban etc etc

get to know the basics then expand on that adding your own style

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:51 pm

robojam wrote:
Might just be me, but I find no enjoyment in doing what has been done before

seriously, name me something you've done that hasnt been done before. (or do you just do stuff that has been done before, and never enjoy doing it?)

c'mon, the bloke wants to learn some basic patterns, wheres the harm?

looking for a "cheat sheet" that lists drum programming for different genres?