Open303 - open source 303 emulation project - collaborators wanted

[rv0]

i would need long notes (lowest possible) with max reso to calculate this (96kHz).

min cutoff, min env mod, min/max decay
min cutoff, max env mod, min/max decay
max cutoff, min env mod, min/max decay
max cutoff, max env mod, min/max decay

i took the lowest tune setting, beeps in between each "instruction line" you gave.
http://users.pandora.be/darffader/rv0te ... gnotes.wav

if you can transpose in semitones

transpose works by holding "pitch mode" and pressing any key on the 303 keyboard.

so yeah.

[rv0]

i hope i have grokked that 303 notation - just to be sure, here's what i mean graphically:

good you added the graphic because your notation was wrong.
you cannot program a note value where a tie exists.
i went on with the c# instead of d

this is the correct pattern:

Code: Select all

TM: GG--GG--GG--GG--
PM: c(S),c#,c(S),c#(A),c(AS),c#,c(AS),c#(A)

did 4 takes:
1) what you asked, center tune
2) same, tune at lowest
3) same, tune at lowest, down on every note (lowest level possible)
4) same, tune at highest, up on every note, transposed up 1 octave (highest level possible)

http://users.pandora.be/darffader/rv0te ... tslide.wav

...actually, it could be even the same notes (all c), if that does not trigger some special condition - does it?

it does, as soon as you use the same notes, TM will change to GO--GO--GO--GO-- and the redundant note will disappear from PM

[kunn]

thanks for the samples. think i can solve this envelope thing now.

[rv0]

@ antto

made it an .ogg file because my ftp is full again..
it did clip on one peak for some bizare reason..

my reso pot is a bit f**ked up, so it behaves strange at one point (just before max resonance).. I have a spare but didn't install it yet because I like how this one sounds)

i figured it didn't matter that much for this test.

http://users.pandora.be/darffader/rv0test/antoamp.ogg

[Music Engineer]

good you added the graphic because your notation was wrong.
you cannot program a note value where a tie exists.

but there were no ties - just slides. i thought, ties and slides are different (but possibly equivalent?) things?

...actually, it could be even the same notes (all c), if that does not trigger some special condition - does it?

it does, as soon as you use the same notes, TM will change to GO--GO--GO--GO-- and the redundant note will disappear from PM

so, the 'O' indicates only ties, but not slides, yes? however, what i meant was actually not the internal sequencer representation but the question, if the filter/envelope/amplitude switches behave differently for tied (as opposed to slided) notes...i assume not?

but whatever, much thanks once again for the samples!

[rv0]

good you added the graphic because your notation was wrong.
you cannot program a note value where a tie exists.

but there were no ties - just slides. i thought, ties and slides are different (but possibly equivalent?) things?

actually you wrote 4 ties:

Code: Select all

TM PM UDAS   WTF
G  c  s      normal->normal
O  d
-
-
G  c  s      normal->accent
O  d  a
-
-
G  c  as     accent->normal
O  d  
-
-
G  c  as     accent->accent
O  d  a
-
-

is a wrong pattern, when i program that into my 303 without thinking it will be

Code: Select all

PM:c(S), d, c(S), d(A)
TM: GO--GO--GO--GO--

because 'O' never has a note related to it
i'm pretty sure you meant:

Code: Select all

PM:c(S), d, c(S), d(A), c(AS), d, c(AS), d(A)
TM: GG--GG--GG--GG--

so, the 'O' indicates only ties, but not slides, yes? however, what i meant was actually not the internal sequencer representation but the question, if the filter/envelope/amplitude switches behave differently for tied (as opposed to slided) notes...i assume not?

ties are just long notes.. there's no such thing as tied notes. (semantics: a tied note does exist however)


I think it must be clear by now?

EDIT: to clarify even more:
You don't tie notes, you tie units of time (gatetime - steps).

[antto]

i downloaded all the samples, gonna check em out now..
rv0: sorry, my question.. i was tired, couldn't really think
so, i watched a bunch of videos, where the guys first enter the notes (PitchMode) then return and enter the.. UDAS, and then TimeMode (3 passes)
i got the feeling you do it in another way? TimeMode first? PitchMode+UDAS in one pass?

is there some simple and easy method, that can be used in any case (no matter what the patter might be) ?
or do i got it wrong again? ;]

[antto]

rv0: you recorded my sample at 88200Hz, and then downsampled and convert it to ogg, right? ;]
it looks good, the clipping is not a big deal there..

i see the square wave clearly now, i'll adjust my shaper

[antto]

i'm tweaking the 3 HP filters watching closely on the spectroscope+oscilloscope for both waveforms..
here are some *close* approximate frequencies:

the first HP filter (the DC blocker that is right after the oscillator) is about 25Hz
second HP (main-filter-feedback) is 120Hz*
third HP** (AD Convertor/Mixer) is 32Hz*

* because of my crappy 4x oversampled code, i am not sure, these *might* be four times smaller (tho, it doesn't look so at first)
** it's logical to have a third HP filter for the AD convertor, tho in my current synth, this third HP filter is inside the synth, after the main filter output, before the Amplifier <- which might be a little wrong, but the waveforms look the same for now

square wave:
assuming the amplitude of the sawtooth is +/-1.0, and the tanh() shaper:
offset = -0.066
amplification = ~60
(square = tanh((saw-0.066)*60)

comparing both waveforms amplitude, when i tweak the volume so the sawtooth overall amplitude matches closely - i need to tweak a little for the square, so the output of the tanh() must be scaled a little to match the TB-303

EDIT:
notice: i am now using plain-sawtooth, no fancy phase bullcrap! i'm just attenuating the high freqs a little more than normal, to kill the "ringing" close to nyquist***
tho, i can switch my osc to output non-bandlimited saw (using the phase variable) and the effect is the same (only that it aliases a little on high notes)

*** the new code for my bandlimited wavetable is here: http://musicdsp.org/showArchiveComment. ... hiveID=268
i've posted a second comment with the new anti-ringing thing

hope this helps ;]
if following this doesn't lead you to close-looking waveforms then probably: i reported wrong frequencies for the last two HP filters (try them divided by 4) or your filter is too different (i doubt that)

[rv0]

i downloaded all the samples, gonna check em out now..
rv0: sorry, my question.. i was tired, couldn't really think
so, i watched a bunch of videos, where the guys first enter the notes (PitchMode) then return and enter the.. UDAS, and then TimeMode (3 passes)
i got the feeling you do it in another way? TimeMode first? PitchMode+UDAS in one pass?

is there some simple and easy method, that can be used in any case (no matter what the patter might be) ?
or do i got it wrong again? ;]

no, the video is probably right..

you can't do pitchmode + udas in one pass.. because it really works like a stack where you "push" notes on.
So first you push note values, you exit pitch mode,
and then you re-enter it, then you can cycle thru the notes using write/next button.. It is while pushing and then holding "write next" each time, you can can add the UDAS info one by one.

The order doesn't really matter that much.

you can do TM PM PM, PM TM PM, or whatever....
You know I think I'm gonna record a few videos myself to explain as much as possible. It's hard with my ESL, it would be just easier if I can demonstrate.


About the downsampling of your sample.. I recorded yours in 44100 because you said it didn't matter (and I wanted to save on server space).. It would be nice if someone started a wiki for this project where the files can be uploaded.

[antto]

rv0: i've downloaded all samples of yours, so far..
so if you don't have em anymore - just call ;]

[antto]

vb303_rv0_amp01.ogg (2.9MB)
here's how this looks (with the HPF values and waveforms i said earlier)
i only changed the sawtooth smoothiness (from the table generator, made it a little bit less smooth, it was too much actually)
i've also tweaked the "bad" tuning to match the audio sample, all keys are C ;]
tuning is scaled with: 1.03450 (pretty bad)
tho, it doesn't matter, rv0 could always tweak that.. and being a little bit detuned makes the instrument sound a little bit more unique from it's brothers & sisters ;]

[antto]

while i was messing around with the PW value, i accidentaly noticed something..
you probably remember what Roland made that synth for, to emulate a bass-guitar+player
vb303_bassline.mp3
i start off with the "acid" sound, then i start tweaking the normal parameters (Envmod, cutoff, resonance)
the only thing i think the TB-303 can't do is the PW, i change that too, so the square is very assymetric, now that starts to sound something like a guitar to mee (NOTE: i am no guitar guy at all, i don't normaly listen to music which has real guitars in there, so i am probably talking sh!t now, but..)
just when i add some little (good) distortion on that, it really gets good

could this be what Roland wanted to do?!
i think i never heard a TB-303 do that (tho, i haven't searched for it)
the key thing was the PW here, so probably they had to add a PW knob to the 303, and it would have been a hit (and we probably wouldn't have acid music now)
just thinkering..

[rv0]

wow thats f**king cool antto!
ok, so i'll get a PW mod on my 303 next
Now just figure a way to emulate the Ravi Shankar sitar sound and I will be happier than ever...

[antto]

i'm glad you like it, i liked it myself too
and the pattern i played wasn't really intended to be a bassguitar-like pattern

btw, when you play the 303 like that, all the knobs make sence, the Accent for example, is like the guitar player is hiting the strings harder, really cool
i guess someone might be able to make some nice Instrumental/Jazzy/Funky sort of track with a 303 for the bass-guitar, and, it might fool the guitar-maniacs that it's a real guitar there (well, probably an odd one)

"Ravi Shankar sitar" <- haven't heard of that, is it some specific distortion or an instrument (eek)

btw2: got another question about the sequencer
i am thinkering more and more about what to do - keep my old "modern" editing style, or switch to a 303-style..
i am afraid that having both at the same time won't work somewhere (probably the memory..)
so, here's my question:
you program a pattern, you enter the pitches first
you cannot enter more than 16.. that's the maximum steps of a pattern
you can enter less, no problem..
let's say you enter 4 notes:
PM: c d# f e
at this moment, this doesn't mean in any way that the pattern is 4 steps long
now enter the time mode
TM: G O G
so, the pattern would be 3 steps long
a long C note to, then a D#, and that's all
the F and E keys will not be used, tho they're probably saved into the memory for this pattern

now what happens if you edit the Time information of this pattern? (actually, can you do so, i'm not sure)
if you want to enter new TimeMode info for this pattern, without touching the pitches
TM: G O O G
because the O is a "tie" it won't take a "pitch"
so i guess the pattern will be a (3 times) long C note, then a D# again

blah, i got confused myself already..
now if you add a slide on the first "C" key..
erm, slides are programmed per each note (in PitchMode) right?

i think i got lost now, will post this anyway