FXpansion D-CAM: Synth Squad for sale now!

[andy-cytomic]

In answer to questions about cleaner sounds from Synth Squad: ...

Okay, all these recommendations help to get a cleaner sound, yes. But still they don't help to make SS sound like analog, it still sounds like an average VA. I doesn't deliver the claimed "unmatched vibe of hardware" like which I get from synths like Minimoog Voyager or, Prophet V, or Prophet '08, or Matrix-1000, etc. And it's not just my perception - for example, this thread proves that a lot of people can really easily tell real analog from Synth Squad.

The thread that you point out is actually not the original thread, and the audio files have been taken out of context - it was never my intention to replicate the sound of the Jupiter 6 to the point Cypher would sound identical. Here is the original thread where the owner of the Jupiter 6 concluded "The fact that you got about 98% of its sound from a softie is just wow.":
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electron ... d-out.html

A few of the points that people distinguished the two synths were that Cypher has faster smoother envelopes and more controlled self oscillation, which were both things I was deliberately trying to show in the demo as features so fair cop. Notice the nasty clipped distortion on the Jupiter when the resonance was increased? Also the envelopes on the Jupiter 6 are software generated via a DAC and you can actually hear the slow update rate as a fixed pitch buzz on the entire signal especially with low filter cutoffs which is quite distinctive but not useful all the time and definitely not modeled in Synth Squad.

Here is an audio example which was featured earlier in this thread matching the sound of an SH-101 with Strobe, which is a much closer comparison since Strobe is actually inspired by an SH-101, half of the example is Strobe and the other half an SH-101:
http://www.vellocet.com/SynthSquadAudio ... gi_res.mp3

Andrew Simper

[michu]

If you care to try it next time, could you try setting filter drive to like say -12 dB for a start, also (that's a shot in the dark) please try it with oversampling set to 1x...

It's somewhat surprising, but setting oversampling to 1x helped quite a bit. The sound become less "harsh", but I can't say that it's close to analog. After reducing amp and filter drive the sound is close to some early hardware VA synths (which is not a bad thing), but again - it's supposed to be the ultimate analog emulation, not another VA.

x1 oversampling is a kind of a draft mode. oscs sound much darker then and filters do not open beyond some several kHz. it could be considered emulating some low grade analogue with slow oscillators etc.

I don't have to know how to program a specific analog synth to instantly get hundreds of amazing sounds from it. Knowing general analog synth concepts is enough for programming analogs. If it's not for Strobe/Cypher then it's their fault, not mine.

the fault of Synth Squad lays in that it is exposing a few parameters usually not accesible in traditional analogue synth, like drive level for filters and voice amp. this allows more flexibility in programming (personally i'm grateful for it) tho' it puts more demand on the user.

as a sidenote, eg MKS-80 has some bass boost eq build in, so i'd say tough luck emulating such one without any postprocessing. (personally i'm all the way against hardwiring such stuff in a way inaccesible to a user)
<edit> after some reading up, Juno 106 also seems to use some bass boost circuit</edit>
peace

[Nokenoku]

What about some really kickass audio-demos, which have some kind of niceness like an MKS-80 or Andromeda A6 for example?
I'd really like to hear some kickass-audio-demos from SynthSquad!

The first SynthSquad-demos kind of impressed me and I had hope ... but now most demos (on the fxpansion-site) sound unconvincing to me. But that might also come from the choice of the shown sounds.
So I'd really appreciate to hear some "classic" sounds (in MKS or A6 style) from the SynthSquad.

At the moment I must say, I sadly have a bit the same impression like Megakazbek, that it's just another VA, which doesn't add much new.
Don't get me wrong .. it looks like a really nice pack of synths, but I actually hoped for something different .. more kickass ...

[Megakazbek]

It's not my style to say that but what you say is total bull***t. You can't tell me that there is ANY synth out there that doesn't need some/specific programming skills to get nice sounds. I used some real analog synths like Jupiter 8, MKS-80 or Minimoog and the results at the beginning were far from being perfect.

What I say is very simple. On any analog synth I've tried, it was possible for me to make amazingly great sounds using just (for example) two saw oscs through LP filter modulated by filter env (i.e. using very simple structure that is available on ANY synth, and that you can set up on any synth even if you've never seen it before and don't know anything specific about it). With the same simple structure in Synth Squad I couldn't make anything approaching the same quality of what I was able to do on analog synths.
I don't care about osc stacking, modulation system, this feature, that feature, etc. If it's not possible to make a simplest structure like 2xSaw->LP filter+amp&filter ENVs sound good, then (to me) Synth Squad doesn't capture ANYTHING analog.

If you ask how to use more than one OSC in Strobe there are 3 main possibilities

I am not asking that.
I want the opposite: I want to completely get rid of the need to use additional oscs, tricks, features, etc, and to get great sounds using JUST this ONE osc, as I can do on true analog synths. Show me a good sounding patch where there is no osc stacking, no unison, no modulation slots used, no sophisticated programming tricks, etc, etc, but just one or two saws going through a filter with no modulation other than amp/filter envs and lfo, and I'll believe that Synth Squad can sound like analog.

[Ingonator]

It's not my style to say that but what you say is total bull***t. You can't tell me that there is ANY synth out there that doesn't need some/specific programming skills to get nice sounds. I used some real analog synths like Jupiter 8, MKS-80 or Minimoog and the results at the beginning were far from being perfect.

What I say is very simple. On any analog synth I've tried, it was possible for me to make amazingly great sounds using just (for example) two saw oscs through LP filter modulated by filter env (i.e. using very simple structure that is available on ANY synth, and that you can set up on any synth even if you've never seen it before and don't know anything specific about it). With the same simple structure in Synth Squad I couldn't make anything approaching the same quality of what I was able to do on analog synths.
I don't care about osc stacking, modulation system, this feature, that feature, etc. If it's not possible to make a simplest structure like 2xSaw->LP filter+amp&filter ENVs sound good, then (to me) Synth Squad doesn't capture ANYTHING analog.

If you ask how to use more than one OSC in Strobe there are 3 main possibilities

I am not asking that.
I want the opposite: I want to completely get rid of the need to use additional oscs, tricks, features, etc, and to get great sounds using JUST this ONE osc, as I can do on true analog synths. Show me a good sounding patch where there is no osc stacking, no unison, no modulation slots used, no sophisticated programming tricks, etc, etc, but just one or two saws going through a filter with no modulation other than amp/filter envs and lfo, and I'll believe that Synth Squad can sound like analog.

Sorry i was a bit rude at the beginning of my post.

I still don't get your point. I already made 65 patches with Strobe. Most of them tried to emulate OB-X patches (from OP-X Pro) so the used features are quite basic. Some other patches use only a single OSC. Others use more advanced features.
It looks like you have access to someone owning Synth Squad. You could try my patches yourself: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 32#3780132

I still don't get the point why Synth Squad should not use additional features or why you only want sounds that use a minimal amount of features.

For my taste many of the factory patches, many of the patches in the user library (in the FXpansion forum) or many of my own patches sound convincingly analog. And mostly i don't care how many features were used as soon as they sound good. I admit that some of the presets are also not my taste but i guess that's normal.

[HunterKiller]

How much time have you spent with Amber? To me, it's the real gem of SS.

I have to say that it is a damn good string synth. The best in software land. Great at making bright Solina sounds and organ like string sounds.

But when I compare it to the Eminent 310 strings (where the ARP Solina come from) it comes rather short. While the mids might sound similar and the high frequencies are hit and miss (you've got to use the formant filter to adjust the brightness and the overall make up of anything above 500Hz...), all in all you can really get a great sound at the top notes.... But....

It's in the low frequencies, where Amber totally falls apart. It sounds muddy and undefined. Between 60-100% chorus rate the lows are almost useless.
Compared to the Eminent strings, which remain both bright and well defined with a clearness and a warm slightly resonant character, Amber doesn't even come close. It turns into a mushy ambience, the original body of the sound gets buried.

The only way to try and match the Eminent strings is to decrease the chorus rate to 55%, at which time the lows start to sound defined, but then top notes become totally useless.

Software string synths still have a bit of evolution to go through before they can sound as good as the best out there.

And the ARP Solina and the Omni are definitely not the best string synths ever made.

[Angus_FX]

@HunterKiller - be sure to turn out the HP filter on the ensemble section for decent lows - it is on at 300Hz or something in the INIT preset, which is not ideal; also, the INIT preset has some Velocity -> Amp modulation which you wouldn't get on the real thing... best way to approach it for string machine sounds is:-

- Mixer: Synth section 0%, Ens 50%
- Velocity > Amp modulation (via TransMod) - off
- Ens: 8' all the way up, dial in 4' as needed
- Ens HP: 0
- Ens LP: as needed, suggest around 60%
- Analogue noise knob: suggest 50%


Then turn rez. down to zero on the formant filter, set all the formant band gains to 50%, and dial up the overall Amp gain til you get a volume you're happy with.

Having done that, you can then use the formant filter to sculpt the tone out to wherever you'd like it to be at.

Can't promise it will fix everything, would be interested to hear if it makes a differenc tho.

[edit: typo]

[Rory_FX]

Another quick tip online:

Quick Tip 07 - Abusing Voices

[IncarnateX]

Another quick tip online:

Quick Tip 07 - Abusing Voices

I also have a quick tip:

Make a demo, please!

[ZenPunkHippy]

There is a rumour going around that they're working on the demo right now!!!

Peace,
Andy.

[Igro]

There is a rumour going around that they're working on the demo right now!!!

Peace,
Andy.

There is a humor going around that they're working on the demo.

[himalaya]

What I say is very simple. On any analog synth I've tried, it was possible for me to make amazingly great sounds using just (for example) two saw oscs through LP filter modulated by filter env (i.e. using very simple structure that is available on ANY synth, and that you can set up on any synth even if you've never seen it before and don't know anything specific about it). With the same simple structure in Synth Squad I couldn't make anything approaching the same quality of what I was able to do on analog synths.

Well, the results I get satisfy my hunger for analog sounds and more...
Here's a post from another thread where somebody challanged and wanted to hear if Synth Squad could do warmth Mood Prodigy style. And whereas SynthSquad is not an emulation of the Prodigy I find it has enough of what we perceive as that unattainable 'analog warmth', that is is enough for me ( at least).

here goes the conversation:

The challenger:

If any owner of SynthSquad manages to get close to the sound
warmth in the following clip (especially at 00:24)

http://www.trippler.net/files/mp3/prodigy.mp3

(It's some fun on an old Moog Prodigy)

Then I'm sold and I bet many many other potential buyers, too

Me:

Here's Strobe for you.
Just keep in mind that Strobe is not an emulation of Prodigy and that I didn't try to match your filter and envelope response. That 'warm' saw sound starts at about 0:33. Then you hear Strobe go through sync, various sub oscillators...etc but it's not a showcase of what Strobe can do.

This is done live with my mouse so there are silly mistakes, lol, anyway. Here:
www.electric-himalaya.com/stuff/strobe_prodigy.mp3

Another user:

IMHO in this song Strobe sounds better than the original one. Another point for Strobe...

The original challenger:

Thank you for the effort!

Okay, sounds like I underrated Strobe Wink Good work. It sounds very
pleasing to my ears and very close to the prodigy

Here's the original thread:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... &start=195

The thing with Synth Squad is...it can do warmth and harshness, phat and cutting thinness. Whatever you want. It is a hallmark of a great synthesiser, since it gives an extremely wide range of sounds.

NOTE. In my prodigy version, Synth Squad is doing more than asked by the person who challanged, so yes, it will move from the 'nice and warm' to cutting harshness as I'm moving through simple sounds to hard sync and overdrive.

[IncarnateX]

There is a rumour going around that they're working on the demo right now!!!

Peace,
Andy.

That humour or rumour is quite old by now, I'd say.

Then again, if it was me, I would deliberately delay any release until the hype-wave, mp3-wave and quick tip-wave of buyers were over. With a demo, some of the idealists might change their mind, while the realists will not buy it before trying anyway

[hakey]

Then again, if it was me, I would deliberately delay any release until the hype-wave, mp3-wave and quick tip-wave of buyers were over. With a demo, some of the idealists might change their mind, while the realists will not buy it before trying anyway

That's what I've been thinking too (I think I said as much earlier in the thread). Also, doesn't a demo give something for "the forces of darkness" to work with?

If FXpansion are calculating that there's a group of potential customers who'll still be around whenever they release the demo, then they're probably right.

[andy-cytomic]

@Megakazbek and Nokenoku

Did you guys have a listen to the audio example in my previous post - the sh-101 in self osc example?
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 32#3779457

If either of you could please post some examples of the kind of thing you are talking about that is distinctly analog, with no reverb or eq (well bass boost allowed for synths that have that built in) or any other processing then we can use that as a starting point. (edit: one or two saw osc with a simple melody would be ideal as well so it's easier to recreate. Hopefully I can get 98% of the way like I managed with the gearslutz Jupiter-6 examples).

Till then I've done an example of a single saw bass sound and then mix in another saw (so two total) and slow down the attack and release and add some panning to make it into a string pad type sound. I've used a bit of filter drive, by minimal amp drive:

http://www.vellocet.com/SynthSquadAudio ... to_pad.mp3

Andrew Simper