The Middle C

[neueliteratur]

Hello folks,

Wikipedia says Middle C is C4.

But how come on my Yamaha keyboard, it is written C3 where the middle C is??

[sb.net]

Middle c is relative. Look on your key board for the middle note the closest c to that note is middle c.

[neueliteratur]

Middle c is relative. Look on your key board for the middle note the closest c to that note is middle c.

OK, so the Middle C is not always the C that is inbetween the treble clef and the bass clef?

[Meffy]

It's not a well-defined term with respect to MIDI note numbers. Because of this I avoid using the term at all. If someone else requires I play a middle C, I pick one (about 261.6 Hz) and if they don't like it they can tell me to go up or down.

[Gamma-UT]

Hello folks,

Wikipedia says Middle C is C4.

But how come on my Yamaha keyboard, it is written C3 where the middle C is??

It can also be called C5 and c' (Helmholtz's term, which is an extension of how the notes were named after the Middle Ages). There isn't a universally accepted standard for it. It is, however, always MIDI note 60 (I think). C4 makes the most sense for piano as it's the fourth C on an 88-key instrument. C5 means you don't have to use negative numbers for the lowest practical note. Yamaha, for some reason, went for C3 and some sequencers use it as their standard as well, possibly because it's the third C on a 61-key instrument, which many keyboard synths are.

[Meffy]

It is, however, always MIDI note 60 (I think).

Is it? I seem to recall confusion about this in some plug-ins and hardware sound modules, easily fixed by using a note offset but still annoying. I could be wrong though.

[Gamma-UT]

It is, however, always MIDI note 60 (I think).

Is it? I seem to recall confusion about this in some plug-ins and hardware sound modules, easily fixed by using a note offset but still annoying. I could be wrong though.

You could well be right. I suspect it's one of those Roland/Yamaha things. Not something I've had to think about for long time and then, for me, it only matters what Kontakt thinks (for keyswitching scripts).

But when it comes to Helmholtz's and Medieval note names, I'm yer man (sorta).

[robogone]

It's easier to listen to it and see if it sounds like the correct octave.

[asseca]

Extract from MIDI specification:

Note: The MIDI specification only defines note number 60 as "Middle C", and all other notes are relative. The absolute octave number designations shown here are based on Middle C = C4, which is an arbitrary assignment.

Also: note number 60 = "Middle C" = 261.63Hz

[Gamma-UT]

It's easier to listen to it and see if it sounds like the correct octave.

If you think about it, it's a really weird psychoacoustic effect. Practically nobody has perfect pitch. But ask anyone brought up on Western music "which note is in the middle", they will generally select Middle C.

[robogone]

It's easier to listen to it and see if it sounds like the correct octave.

If you think about it, it's a really weird psychoacoustic effect. Practically nobody has perfect pitch. But ask anyone brought up on Western music "which note is in the middle", they will generally select Middle C.

But I think most musicians can tell if something's an octave too high or too low. I don't have perfect pitch, but it's really easy to tell if any particular C is middle C or not.

[Meffy]

@asseca: Thanks, that's the confusion that, erm, confused me. And does yet, as you've seen. :-}

[jonnyG]

Some years ago Steinberg tried to standardise middle C somewhere between E# and Fb (give or take a few cents). When no-one listened they invaded Poland. Tread carefully.

[Gamma-UT]

It's easier to listen to it and see if it sounds like the correct octave.

If you think about it, it's a really weird psychoacoustic effect. Practically nobody has perfect pitch. But ask anyone brought up on Western music "which note is in the middle", they will generally select Middle C.

But I think most musicians can tell if something's an octave too high or too low. I don't have perfect pitch, but it's really easy to tell if any particular C is middle C or not.

That's what I'm getting at. Relative pitch is (relatively) easy to pick up, which implies that the ear/brain doesn't hear any note in isolation as a 'colour' in the way that people with perfect pitch describe it. But the brain seems to innately have some mechanism that can centre the scale. That implies that the brain can, at least to a small extent, identify a fixed pitch and that it's either built-in or learned very readily.

[Musicologo]

There's no answer to this question. Middle C in Europe is generally C3, in North America is generally C4. The problem comes that there is not an universal convention.

The only thing sure is that middle C is the one between the bass and the treble clef. Now if you call it C3, C4 or C5 that's very random according to country conventions.

Is kinda like the billion stuff. In america a billion is 1.000.000.000 (a thousand millions). In Europe a billion is 1.000.000.000.000 a million millions. And a thousand millions is just that: a thousand millions. When it comes to magazines it's pretty confusing coz everyone is always messing up calculations. In Europe earth has 6.000 million people. In America earth has 6 billion people...