KVR Audio

leighbeynon · Post by **leighbeynon** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:11 am

i have tone space working on my system,

but the chords that i prefer only work when i use the mouse, i can seem
to find the same chords on my midi keyboard,

im trying to create gospal / soulful chord progressions and im really struggling to get something to work out,

ive also used the chord plug in ableton, but surely you wouldnt create a chord progression with just min 9ths ? i though it would be more like different inversions etc so the progression doesnt sound dull

i cant seem to get anything worked out

jopy · Post by **jopy** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:13 am

a lot of gospel music is in major keys. i read a book on this by mark harrison (just called gospel piano) and he claims most gospel music can be understood in terms of using three part chordal harmonies in the right hand and stepwise movement in the bass. there's a lot of movement from the I to the ii chord up and down the scale. there's also overlaying the I and the IV or even backtracking further to play the IV of IV (which is the bVII chord of the tonic key).

i don't know if that helps any, i wasn't entirely sure what your question was.

leighbeynon · Post by **leighbeynon** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:03 am

yeah i dont really like maj chords, much prefer minor really,

just struggling to get some nice chord progressions using vst tools,
just trying to find something that i can create and moves smoothly from one chord to another,

as i say i have used the chord plug in ableton where you can lock all keys on the midi keyboard to min 9ths but its not great for progressions

jopy · Post by **jopy** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:10 pm

For minor keys in gospel, I think it's mostly using the minor i chord, the iib5 chord, and the altered V chord, a lot like jazz. Some of the substitutions are using the major IV chord, using the bIV (maj7) chord, maybe the triad on the bVII degree.

There's always vamping on i m7, ii m7, III maj7 and variations thereof. That's used a ton in soul music.

leighbeynon · Post by **leighbeynon** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:43 pm

ok now im sure youve just given me some interesting music knowlege, problem is im still learning this language, i understand that i ii iv etc are the chords based on the scale, could you maybe let me know a little more, like what chords i could attempt to play to get a nice chord progression, ive very very slow at playing at the moment thanks

psenior · Post by **psenior** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:55 am

First of all, I suggest you stop using those software tools to help you play.

Next, you have been given a lot of good advice so far. Truthfully, gospel progressions are pretty simple. Most church pianists are not music theory minded at all. They play either I, IV or V chords in the right hand and play whatever bass note the song calls for in the left hand to get by, and it does work out OK. Sometimes you will play a diminished chord or a dominant chord.

Try some of these progressions; they're all in the key of C. Play at a slow tempo (65 bpm). Each slash equals one beat. The slash chords are telling you to play a particular triad in the right hand over a certain bass note in the left hand. For example, G/B means G major triad in the right hand over a B bass note played with the left hand.

This one is about as simple as it gets:

C // G/B // C/A // G // F // C/E // F/D // F/G / G /

This one, we're adding a bit more interesting movement and a 7th chord:

C // E7/B // C /A / B/Ab / Bb/G / Bb/C / F // C/E // F/D // F/G / G /

I could keep going but that's enough for now. A lot of gospel tunes are essentially the same as the Motown hits of old. The progressions I put up remind me of ballads from Mariah Carey's first two albums. If you were to read and play through some of those types of chord charts, you'd get many more ideas. Also playing tunes from church hymnal books is good, if you are able to do it.

leighbeynon · Post by **leighbeynon** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:01 pm

thanks very much ill give these progression a try and see how they sound,

i think im just going to have to learn alot of scales basically
plenty of practise i think !

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:18 pm

quit using software for playing, psenior is spot on with that. I've seen your posts over the span of about a year, and trust me, it's not speeding your process up but retarding it. focus on the keyboard, and the chords which sound, the other stuff is majorly in your way. You should be further along, you've been given quite a lot here on this board; you keep leaning on chordspace in any case.

learn chord progressions in general before you try to apply to a given style.

learn circle of fifths in major, then minor keys. (your preference for 'no major' is not going to serve you well, in the first place, any music using chords is going to mix types, it's like I don't like yellow if you're a painter, it won't serve you well.) learn how to see the roman numerals as something which immediately means something. That cart, 'gospel chords' isn't going to pull the horse 'chord progressions'.

Get some things in your actual head away from that chordspace thingy, you have to do for yourself.
BASICS:

learn how this: I IV vii iii VI ii V (I) looks, where your hands go to produce that, and what it sounds like.

all of these moves are falling fifths. it's restricted to 'key' so one of them is not a 'perfect fifth'. If any of these terms escapes you, wikipedia is your friend here.

a basic thing, such as I vi ii V I, 'ice cream changes' can be extracted from this basis. Prevalent in all forms of popular and older, *classical* music.

now, look at falling perfect fifths. I IV bVII bIII etc. C F Bb Eb...
The thing jmeier mentioned at the end of his post, "IV of IV, IV, I", is derived from this movement,

IV - I, is your fundamental move in gospel music. Why? Because at the end, we go A-men. It's the amen cadence, aka plagal cadence. IV of IV, to IV to I is a 'double plagal' move. It's very prevalent in this style. Chances are high at the end of the song, it's going to be a major (life affirming) chord.

leighbeynon · Post by **leighbeynon** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:15 pm

i do agree with you, and i have been having piano lessons all this time, while posting, the music im being asked to play from my teacher is starting to involve more chords, however i dont instantly recognise what chords im playing im just reading the music,

i have been given a book on scales, cadence and chord building from my teacher,
and im practising scales, i do understand some of the roman numerals but i think i need to start with C and look at progressions you mention and work round the circle of 5ths with the same progression,

i think maybe the software could be pulling me back from really moving on with learning chords myself, more practise is needed !

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:32 pm

do start with these progressions as they are basic, on C. Don't try to run before you can crawl and get every single thing at once.

piano lessons... isn't always music lessons. I didn't get *harmony class* from my *guitar teacher*, I got where to place my hands and how to get a sound, and 'do these exercises for finger building'.

I think a way you integrate what you practice with this information about identifying chords is to practice arpeggios, break chords down and learn to recognize them that way.

looking at a software program puts a step in between your hand and your head, it's the last thing you need... it's instrusive actually.

dougsyo · Post by **dougsyo** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:57 pm

Free pdf's for playing gospel music:

http://samsmuzikco.com/education.htm

Doug

Winstontaneous · Post by **Winstontaneous** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:28 pm

As others have mentioned you're probably best approaching this away from the computer. Listen to gospel songs you really like and play them by ear, and remember the purpose of the music--to glorify God, not show the cleverness of man. You don't want to over-analyze, but it's a safe bet that many gospel songs start & end on the I chord and that most of the chords/melody notes will be diatonic (in key).

Recently my piano teacher showed me a good gospel approach to "Amazing Grace".
On the first beat of each measure, play the melody note with right hand pinky and play 3rd & 5th from chord (in proper inversion) with right hand thumb & 1st finger.
Press sustain pedal down on first beat of each bar, hold down, and release pedal at end of each bar. Fill in melody notes with right hand middle, ring, pinky as needed.
Play chord roots w/left hand pinky, adding octaves w/thumb on beats 2&3, and occasional scalewise walks up & down to next root.
Depending on the key/chord you can "pull" into certain notes for a bluesier feel.

tone space / gospel chords ?