Free Kontakt libraries anywhere?

[DocAtlas]

I find it interesting that on his (the guy posting the Speak N Spell samples) links page, he has a section of sites to avoid; Gersic and KVR. He refers to them as 'warez' sites. Sounds like he's projecting.

[DocAtlas]

In keeping with the OP's query, I've been thinking of sampling my analog gear (only two pieces, I don't have any 'friends' to borrow rare stuff off of ). Trouble is, I'm not sure where the best place would be to host the samples. I'd prefer someplace free, especially if I'm giving the samples away for free.

[eDrummist]

The whole Speak and Spell sampling question reminds me a lot of sampling mellotrons. So many people have sampled mellotrons that their sounds have pretty much become public domain. For that matter, the Amen Break, too...

I understand what you're saying regarding the prevalence of these samples on the Internet, however, the Speak and Spell situation is a bit different than the Mellotron samples in a very significant way regarding the copyright (I'll explain what I mean below). Further, the sheer prevalence of these kinds of samples on the Internet doesn't impact the owner's claim on its copyright, if they choose to exercise it. Which is a risk I would not want to take if I were using the S&S samples in a commercial song; I'd get clearance from TI first.

When Mellotrons were/are sold, the maker provided the buyer a license to use the sounds in recorded performances, whereas a Speak and Spell does not provide the buyer with that right, as the product is merely sold as a toy. Consequently, if a popular song were to feature the Speak and Spell samples -- regardless of whether it came from a library made by a sample developer or directly from the toy itself -- Texas Instruments could very easily make a case that their product, which is easily identifiable, was used without permission/license, therefore infringing on their copyright. Even more, fundamental copyright privileges are pretty well honored internationally and would, no doubt, provide them with an easy victory in the courts. Of course, having the right and pursing a claim are two different things. I don't think TI is going to bother going after free sample libraries, as they would be unlikely to even recover their legal expenses, however, a big commercial hit that generates big money might be another story.

[core]

I recenlty added a few (Humanworkshop, Impossible Acoustic) to my list: http://rekkerd.org/freebies-for-native- ... ts-kontakt

[hollowsun]

...however, a big commercial hit that generates big money might be another story.

Well...

It seems the S&S has been used on commercial recordings...

Jean-Michel Jarre, Kraftwerk. Goldie Looking Chain, Beck, Pet Shop Boys, OMD and others (including some Christian rock numbers!!).

Now, whether these artists sought TI's permission or not is another matter but I am thinking they probably didn't... they probably picked up this long discontinued novelty toy and used it in their tracks without a second thought ... much like Trio did


Steve

[Count_fuzzball]

Hollowsun,

I'm wondering though, looking at the copyright info on the archive of the page, I found this:

Hollow Sun claims no copyright over any samples/programs/sounds that are generously and altruistically 'donated' for use/download on the website but given that these samples/programs/sounds are provided freely by the donors within the spirit of the website and are placed in the public domain for free download, it is assumed that the donor understands that any claims to copyright of such donated samples/programs/sounds are forfeited. The same applies to any other data/materials that may be supplied/donated (such as photographs, images, product details and description, etc.).

So aren't those samples in the public domain by those terms and that there is no copyright infringement against you (but against TI, perhaps)? Those Speak and Spell samples were found in the 'donations' section of the website, admittedly?

Just looking for your view on this!

[eDrummist]

...however, a big commercial hit that generates big money might be another story.

Well...

It seems the S&S has been used on commercial recordings...

Jean-Michel Jarre, Kraftwerk. Goldie Looking Chain, Beck, Pet Shop Boys, OMD and others (including some Christian rock numbers!!).

Now, whether these artists sought TI's permission or not is another matter but I am thinking they probably didn't... they probably picked up this long discontinued novelty toy and used it in their tracks without a second thought ... much like Trio did


Steve

Hi Steve,

I have to say, I'm very impressed with your knowledge of Speak and Spell usage in popular music (I was aware of some of those, but not all of them)!

I agree that TI's owning the copyright doesn't mean that they will choose to exercise that right. Maybe they will care to pursue it and maybe they won't. It may be that this stuff has just not hit their radar screen yet or maybe it has and they have chosen to ignore it. In any event, if I were producing a commercial work, I would simply prefer to avoid any unnecessary liability (again, whether in a sample library or the actual toy itself) and would get a release first rather than leave their options open to sue me if, at some point, some TI corporate attorney discovered this new potential revenue stream. As far as my own use (a song for my kids), I think I'm pretty safe!

[Edited to improve a sentence, then once more to put in this edit notice.]

[elxsound]

Hollowsun,

I'm wondering though, looking at the copyright info on the archive of the page, I found this:

Hollow Sun claims no copyright over any samples/programs/sounds that are generously and altruistically 'donated' for use/download on the website but given that these samples/programs/sounds are provided freely by the donors within the spirit of the website and are placed in the public domain for free download, it is assumed that the donor understands that any claims to copyright of such donated samples/programs/sounds are forfeited. The same applies to any other data/materials that may be supplied/donated (such as photographs, images, product details and description, etc.).

So aren't those samples in the public domain by those terms and that there is no copyright infringement against you (but against TI, perhaps)? Those Speak and Spell samples were found in the 'donations' section of the website, admittedly?

Just looking for your view on this!

Question: Were the original samples called "Speak & Spell" or when they were released, did they give notice that a Speak & Spell was sampled?

If the answer is yes to either of those questions, then clearly the comparisons you seem to be trying to draw are not comparisons, because Oon3 was passing off the sample collections as HIS OWN works.

This so far has not been so much about the distribution of free content, but instead about passing off someone else's work as their own. Make sense yet?

*edited to change, where to were.

[Count_fuzzball]

Given the evidence on 0on3's page, he says he found the samples floating around on the internet.

AFAICS, he isn't saying 'OH YEAH I SAMPLED THESE'.He got pissed off and started abusing hollowsun when he was told that the public domain (I think) samples came from his site.

[elxsound]

Given the evidence on 0on3's page, he says he found the samples floating around on the internet.

AFAICS, he isn't saying 'OH YEAH I SAMPLED THESE'.

Now... again... he was informed as to where a particular set of samples originated, and instead he then insulted them rather than give credit as it's due.

[Count_fuzzball]

This so far has not been so much about the distribution of free content, but instead about passing off someone else's work as their own. Make sense yet?

BUT, he wasn't passing those speak and spell samples off as his own:

This is an old favorite, and the wave samples have
been floating around theinternet for years. So Ive
taken these wave files, put everything in order,

EDIT: But yes, it is very very rude of him to abuse steve and then not update the blog saying where the samples came from.

[hollowsun]

Now... again... he was informed as to where a particular set of samples originated, and instead he then insulted them rather than give credit as it's due.

Quite.

I raised the alert on this chap here simply because if he is re-distributing my stuff, it's likely that the other stuff is of dubious provenance as well. And indeed, it was discovered it is with his other 'builds' ... and for some, he IS implying they were of his creation. On that basis, it's fair to ask how much else there is dodgy. It's also fair to assume that much (if not - maybe - all) of it is dodgy.

As I have mentioned before, I wasn't that bothered that he made the S&S stuff available - if he'd known they originally came from me and asked permission, I'd have probably granted it without any problem (in return for a credit/link of course) but no - when the S&S connection was made, he wrote a rather pathetic, name calling tirade against me on his blog. I'm a big boy and couldn't give a shit about such puerile behaviour and I think the whole episode said more about him than anything else. As someone else once said "Methinks he did protest too much"!

And now he's advising his visitors to steer clear of here and other forums, I can only assume because they've blown his cover and revealed that his 'builds' aren't maybe all he claims them to be.


Steve

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, and for those not in the knows, I have always perceived Steve (Hollowsun) as an incredibly honest guy. Back when he offered his (particularly major) catalog of free samples, he'd only care about the occasional "thank you" - but apparently, not even that did happen too often. Instead, people were nicking of his samples, posting (and selling?) them as something new of their own and such. Ridiculous, really.
From all I know, Steve is a true gentleman. He never tries to rip anyone off. And he surely knows the things he's doing. Having received some of his "unofficial" sample sets, being rather informed about what it takes to record, convert and manipulate such things, I can only say that his samples were among the best I've ever got access to. In other words: This dude *really* knows what sampling is all about, so seeing his work derailed/abused by the occasional interned "kid" (in lack of better terms) is really making me sad. Seriously, while he (Steve) might want to earn the occassiomal buck (or two), to me, he has always been more passionate about music and the folks looking for the right tools, sometimes (pretty often even) without any financial interests.
Way to go, really! So f**k all that "sample burglary" and what not.

- Sascha