Analyzing this chord progression

[Download SOphist]

halfstep, that's a nice name if you're into "chord progressions"...

[neueliteratur]

Thanks folks.

Today, I got hold of a fake book page for Freddie Freeloader:

Bb7 % % %
Eb7 % Bb7 %
F7 Eb7 Ab7 %
Bb7 % % %
Eb7 % Bb7 %
F7 Eb7 Bb7 %

How do I explain it theoretically when all the chords are dom7 chords???

For the newbie who only feels satisfaction when things strictly fit into the diatonic harmony (that would be me),

the fact that:
1) Bb7 isn't BbM7 and Eb7 isn't EbM7;
2) there's an Ab7 chord,

gives me panic attacks.

How do I explain these theoretically?

[Ogg Vorbis]

Thanks folks.

Today, I got hold of a fake book page for Freddie Freeloader:

Bb7 % % %
Eb7 % Bb7 %
F7 Eb7 Ab7 %
Bb7 % % %
Eb7 % Bb7 %
F7 Eb7 Bb7 %

How do I explain it theoretically when all the chords are dom7 chords???

For the newbie who only feels satisfaction when things strictly fit into the diatonic harmony (that would be me),

the fact that:
1) Bb7 isn't BbM7 and Eb7 isn't EbM7;
2) there's an Ab7 chord,

gives me panic attacks.

How do I explain these theoretically?

Blues progression! Google the blues...

The dominant seventh IS the tonality in the blues, and you can think mixolydian mode if that helps.

Try not to get too caught up in pure major scale, minor scale when you think of tonality. Especially in jazz, blues and pop styles you frequently have to see where the mode is not straight major or minor.

[psenior]

I believe you will improve your understanding and performance of jazz if you start working in terms of octagonic instead of diatonic scales. For those dominant 7th chords, play melodic lines based on the bebop dominant scale, which is just mixolydian with an extra note between the 7th and the root.

For the Dm7b5 to G7b9, play melodies and harmonies from Cm6-diminished. Most people would probably call this scale a C bebop melodic minor scale, which is just C melodic minor with an added note between the 5th and the 6th.

In major keys, play melodies and harmonies from 6th-diminished. People here would probably call this scale a bebop major scale. This is a major scale with an added note between the 5th and 6th.

[neueliteratur]

I believe you will improve your understanding and performance of jazz if you start working in terms of octagonic instead of diatonic scales. For those dominant 7th chords, play melodic lines based on the bebop dominant scale, which is just mixolydian with an extra note between the 7th and the root.

For the Dm7b5 to G7b9, play melodies and harmonies from Cm6-diminished. Most people would probably call this scale a C bebop melodic minor scale, which is just C melodic minor with an added note between the 5th and the 6th.

In major keys, play melodies and harmonies from 6th-diminished. People here would probably call this scale a bebop major scale. This is a major scale with an added note between the 5th and 6th.

At the risk of being annoying,

how come the "extra note" is between the 7th and the 8th for the Bebop Dominant, but for the Bebop Melodic Minor and the Bebop Major, it is between the 5th and the 6th?

If there's a story behind that.. just wondering..

Thanks.

[trewq]

Thanks folks.

Today, I got hold of a fake book page for Freddie Freeloader:

Bb7 % % %
Eb7 % Bb7 %
F7 Eb7 Ab7 %
Bb7 % % %
Eb7 % Bb7 %
F7 Eb7 Bb7 %

How do I explain it theoretically when all the chords are dom7 chords???

For the newbie who only feels satisfaction when things strictly fit into the diatonic harmony (that would be me),

the fact that:
1) Bb7 isn't BbM7 and Eb7 isn't EbM7;
2) there's an Ab7 chord,

gives me panic attacks.

How do I explain these theoretically?

If you were going to make a progression of only 7th chords starting with Bb7, with each connection resulting in a 7 tone scale, these are the chords you would end up with…..apparently….

These scales are the melodic minor scale, which has two 7th chords a 2nd apart, and the 13#9 scale (sometimes called 'the rock n roll scale'), which has two 7th chords a 5th apart.

Each are are part a bebop scale - can't speak to them cause I've always stuck to 7 tones max for chords/scale.

[psenior]

I believe you will improve your understanding and performance of jazz if you start working in terms of octagonic instead of diatonic scales. For those dominant 7th chords, play melodic lines based on the bebop dominant scale, which is just mixolydian with an extra note between the 7th and the root.

For the Dm7b5 to G7b9, play melodies and harmonies from Cm6-diminished. Most people would probably call this scale a C bebop melodic minor scale, which is just C melodic minor with an added note between the 5th and the 6th.

In major keys, play melodies and harmonies from 6th-diminished. People here would probably call this scale a bebop major scale. This is a major scale with an added note between the 5th and 6th.

At the risk of being annoying,

how come the "extra note" is between the 7th and the 8th for the Bebop Dominant, but for the Bebop Melodic Minor and the Bebop Major, it is between the 5th and the 6th?

If there's a story behind that.. just wondering..

Thanks.

Well, since you asked; there are rules as to where you put the extra notes. The rule for the 6th-diminished scale is because the scale is actually two overlapping chords, a major 6th chord and a diminished 7th chord a half step below it. Likewise, the m6-diminished is just a minor 6th chord and a diminished 7th chord a half step below it.

For the dominant scale, the rule is when playing a descending line starting from the root, 3rd, 5th or 7th of the dominant chord, add the note between the 7th and root. This will give you a very coherent melodic line that will outline the chord. It's a very common sound in jazz.

Don't get me wrong; there are other rules that let you add even more extra notes. I am merely sharing the ones that are easiest to remember and play.

[neueliteratur]

Hello folks,

my new question is concerning M.Davis' version of Autumn Leaves.

The Intro goes like this:

G minor, A minor, Bb major, C major.

I know it's in G minor because I read it somewhere, but why?

What is the reason behind the fact that Miles used A minor instead of A diminished, and C major instead of C minor?

Another question,

the last line of the main part goes like this:

A-75b D7 G-7 F#7 Fm7 E7 EbM

The first three chords are: viib5 V/vi vi

But then how do I analyze the F#7, Fm7, E7?

Appreciate your help,

[Ogg Vorbis]

What is the reason behind the fact that Miles used A minor instead of A diminished, and C major instead of C minor?

I would need to see the full context. Were does the phrase take us, tonally speaking? Is it a cadence somewhere in Gm or some other tonal center? Can't tell without seeing the full context I guess.

Another question,

the last line of the main part goes like this:

A-75b D7 G-7 F#7 Fm7 E7 EbM

The first three chords are: viib5 V/vi vi

But then how do I analyze the F#7, Fm7, E7?

Again, it's tough to look at a snippet like that and analyze it because you need to see where it's going. At first blush I see a 2 5 1 in G minor. Then I see a chromatic decent but it's not clear where are we going!

Descending chromatic movement like that are sometimes used to "blur" tonality temporarily like how painters will fuzz out certain details and then draw your attention to something else that is emerging ambiguously. But look at the end of the phrase and see where we wind up tonally.

Check out the changes to Duke Ellington's Sophisticated Lady. Here you'll see how these descending chromatic movements illustrating some great tonal ambiguity and suggest a sort of 4:00 am sighing melancholy. But Ellington ends the phrase unambiguously in some tonal area or other.

So when I look at a set of changes and try to analyze them, I try to see the logic of the phrases. Musical phrases are like sentences, you wouldn't analyze poetry word-by-word without also looking at the entire phrase and maybe find those "landing points" that you come to within the structure.

As a last idea, the changes to Autumn Leaves is based what's called a "diatonic sequence" which you should look up. A sequence is up a fourth, up a fourth, and so on around the related keys.

Vivaldi seems to be the king of the diatonic sequence. He whips it out of his wallet in nearly everything he writes. And Burt Bacharach.

[psenior]

Hello folks,

my new question is concerning M.Davis' version of Autumn Leaves.

The Intro goes like this:

G minor, A minor, Bb major, C major.

I know it's in G minor because I read it somewhere, but why?

What is the reason behind the fact that Miles used A minor instead of A diminished, and C major instead of C minor?

Another question,

the last line of the main part goes like this:

A-75b D7 G-7 F#7 Fm7 E7 EbM

The first three chords are: viib5 V/vi vi

But then how do I analyze the F#7, Fm7, E7?

Appreciate your help,

I recommend you read the musical analysis of this tune at the following link:

http://www.jazzstandards.com/compositio ... leaves.htm

It should answer all your questions. If not, just ask again and I will try to help you sort it out.

[PurpleCatfishBettie]

G minor, A minor, Bb major, C major.

I know it's in G minor because I read it somewhere, but why?

What is the reason behind the fact that Miles used A minor instead of A diminished, and C major instead of C minor?

From a rudimentary classical standpoint, A minor and C Major would be the 2 and 4 triads respectively of the G melodic minor key.

The Bb major would be the 3rd triad of G natural minor.

So from a classical standpoint, it could be said that he's kind of mixing and matching melodic/natural minor with these 4 chords together.

The thing about the A minor and C major is that they both have the 'e' note or 'raised 6th' of the g melodic minor. This 'raised 6th' or the note found a step and a half (minor 3rd) 'below' the tonic note (in this case g); is that it is a very 'cool sounding' or 'hip sounding' or 'melancholic' or 'ethereal' note.

Well, to me it's a special note. I can't find the exact word to describe it, obviously. It probably depends upon context in any event.

[jancivil]

Hello folks,

my new question is concerning M.Davis' version of Autumn Leaves.

The Intro goes like this:

G minor, A minor, Bb major, C major.

I know it's in G minor because I read it somewhere, but why?

What is the reason behind the fact that Miles used A minor instead of A diminished, and C major instead of C minor?

G Dorian.

Another question,

the last line of the main part goes like this:

A-75b D7 G-7 F#7 Fm7 E7 EbM

The first three chords are: viib5 V/vi vi

But then how do I analyze the F#7, Fm7, E7?

Appreciate your help,

typical bop: ii V progression with tritone substitutes.
(again)

iib5 - V to G minor; then:
F# 7 is a sub. for C7, which is V of F minor, which is ii of where this winds up, Eb.
E7 is substitute for the V of that which would be Bb7.

[neueliteratur]

Wow, thanks for your replies people.

Really appreciate it.

It's gonna takes me some time to digest all that. Lol.

Thanks.

[jancivil]

a lot of the information here is just general information which doesn't necessarily apply to this music

:melodic minor: mixing/matching with natural minor; you can ignore that. that isn't what happens.
<G A Bb C D E G#> "melodic minor"
<G A Bb C D Eb F> "natural minor"
is there an F# in that first set of chords? there is not.
is there an Eb? there is not.
that is irrelevant information.


the reality:

first progression is i ii III IV in G dorian

second progression is Gm: ii V i; Fm: bII* i; that i = ii of Eb: ii bII* I
(* DOMINANT FUNCTION. subs for V.)
You see that the tonal center is descending in a stepwise manner.
<iii, ii, I>
ii V i of iii; 'V' i of ii; ii 'V' I of I (the V in quotes happens to be the tritone substitute bII)

and you may see that's a reversal from the previous progression.

that IS what happens here. if you want to get this section of this music, this is what you focus on.

[neueliteratur]

I've been playing all these blues progression tunes with other folks (Watermelon Man, Freddie Freeloader, Kiss by Prince) and when I tell them I don't know how to solo, they tell me to use the minor pentatonic scale.

But I don't really understand why the "minor" pentatonic scale sounds good on the blues progression while the "major" pentatonic scale sounds dissonant.

I mean, when the blues progression starts with A7, people call it "blues in A". So I assumed it was in A "major" key. But then you use the A "minor" pentatonic.

Why is this?