Hi, I have a question about using inversions in a song.
To try and explain, lets say the track was just vocal and piano, and say my chords are, C, F, G. If the vocal melody starts on say E, should I play the chord of C, in the second inversion (starting on E)? The note falling first on the F chord is A, so, again, would it ideally be played in the second inversion?
The reason I ask this question is that I'm working on a track now, that although the notes of the melody are correct, it doesnt quite sound right. I'm thinking maybe its inversion trouble - something I've not really picked up on before in my tracks. So, any advice appreciated.
Just to clarify, I understand that if multiple instruments were playing then the melody could be grounded alongside some other instrument, however, as I say, in this instance, I need to know how inversions work with just melody and a solo instrument.
Inversion help
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- KVRAF
- 2285 posts since 20 Dec, 2002 from The Benighted States of Trumpistan
If it sounds wrong, it is wrong. It's that simple. Trust your ears.
Uninverted (err, should that be "verted"?) chords sound the most solid, since we tend to hear the lowest note played as the root. By putting the third of the chord on the bottom while the melody is on the third of the chord, you emphasize the third of the chord, which subverts the root -- you're turning a C/E chord into an Emin chord with a suspended 6th and absent 5th. Sometimes you want that; sometimes you want something more free-flowing and dreamy, which is when inversions (especially parallel 6/3 chords) are useful.
Alas, you're going to have to actually do the work and test possibilities, since theory is only a best guess on how to make things sound right. Even Mozart generally wrote at the piano.
Uninverted (err, should that be "verted"?) chords sound the most solid, since we tend to hear the lowest note played as the root. By putting the third of the chord on the bottom while the melody is on the third of the chord, you emphasize the third of the chord, which subverts the root -- you're turning a C/E chord into an Emin chord with a suspended 6th and absent 5th. Sometimes you want that; sometimes you want something more free-flowing and dreamy, which is when inversions (especially parallel 6/3 chords) are useful.
Alas, you're going to have to actually do the work and test possibilities, since theory is only a best guess on how to make things sound right. Even Mozart generally wrote at the piano.
Wait... loot _then_ burn? D'oh!
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- KVRist
- 212 posts since 5 Jun, 2006
What a coincidence I was studying the same subject this weekend.
There is several technics you can use, here is some I learned:
1-Melody note on top of the chord, so melody is E, use an inversion on C major chord = G - C - E, where E note is on top. Inversions are used to give some movement to the bassline as well.
2-From Gary Ewer's Blog:
A)If the melody dwells in and around the tonic note (i.e., the key note), consider adding an upper harmony part that stays mostly a 3rd higher than the melody.
B)If the melody dwells in and around the dominant note (i.e., the fifth note of the key), consider adding a lower harmony part that stays mostly a 3rd lower than the melody.
C)Three part harmony adds a nice sense of fullness to the vocal sound. While you can use your ears and experiment to do 2-part harmony, 3-part may require a bit more understanding of chord structure. But in general, here's what will work nicely: Add a harmony above and one below the melody by using the tones of the chords you're using. Then add passing tones to connect each voice's part, so that they don't have to jump from one chord tone to the next.
D)Constant vocal harmony becomes tiring; Use your discretion when adding harmonies, and save them for moments where you need to increase energy, like the chorus of your song.
If your chorus melody is identical to your verse melody, adding harmonies to the chorus is a great idea.
E)Using harmony on one isolated word within your melody will draw attention to that word, and can be a great way to direct your audience's attention to certain aspects of your lyric.
3- Pick the melody note harmonize using UP 3rds is the most common in popular music.
4-From EHOW:
Experiment. Once you have harmonized your melody in thirds, you can alter the harmonization to your liking. Although thirds is the most common harmony used in popular music, you can harmonize with any interval you like, as long as the note falls within the key. Try replacing a few of the harmonized notes with a fourth or fifth instead of a third. Harmonizing with fourths, fifths and sixths are the most common. Just use the same method that you learned in Step 4, but count up a different amount of notes. For a fourth, you will count up four notes. For a fifth, count up five notes.
Listen to songs with harmonies you like and try to deconstruct the harmonization. Examine if the harmony used all thirds or a combination of thirds and other intervals like fourths or fifths. All of the examples mentioned have used "counting up" as the method for harmonizing melodies, as this is the most common technique found in popular music. This is because the vast majority of harmonies are written "higher" than the original melody. Harmonizing down can interfere with and muddy the original melody line, making the listener unsure which melody is meant to be the true focus of the song.
http://www.ehow.com/how_4841948_harmonize-melodies.html#
Let me know if you guys have more technics to harmonize a melody.
There is several technics you can use, here is some I learned:
1-Melody note on top of the chord, so melody is E, use an inversion on C major chord = G - C - E, where E note is on top. Inversions are used to give some movement to the bassline as well.
2-From Gary Ewer's Blog:
A)If the melody dwells in and around the tonic note (i.e., the key note), consider adding an upper harmony part that stays mostly a 3rd higher than the melody.
B)If the melody dwells in and around the dominant note (i.e., the fifth note of the key), consider adding a lower harmony part that stays mostly a 3rd lower than the melody.
C)Three part harmony adds a nice sense of fullness to the vocal sound. While you can use your ears and experiment to do 2-part harmony, 3-part may require a bit more understanding of chord structure. But in general, here's what will work nicely: Add a harmony above and one below the melody by using the tones of the chords you're using. Then add passing tones to connect each voice's part, so that they don't have to jump from one chord tone to the next.
D)Constant vocal harmony becomes tiring; Use your discretion when adding harmonies, and save them for moments where you need to increase energy, like the chorus of your song.
If your chorus melody is identical to your verse melody, adding harmonies to the chorus is a great idea.
E)Using harmony on one isolated word within your melody will draw attention to that word, and can be a great way to direct your audience's attention to certain aspects of your lyric.
3- Pick the melody note harmonize using UP 3rds is the most common in popular music.
4-From EHOW:
Experiment. Once you have harmonized your melody in thirds, you can alter the harmonization to your liking. Although thirds is the most common harmony used in popular music, you can harmonize with any interval you like, as long as the note falls within the key. Try replacing a few of the harmonized notes with a fourth or fifth instead of a third. Harmonizing with fourths, fifths and sixths are the most common. Just use the same method that you learned in Step 4, but count up a different amount of notes. For a fourth, you will count up four notes. For a fifth, count up five notes.
Listen to songs with harmonies you like and try to deconstruct the harmonization. Examine if the harmony used all thirds or a combination of thirds and other intervals like fourths or fifths. All of the examples mentioned have used "counting up" as the method for harmonizing melodies, as this is the most common technique found in popular music. This is because the vast majority of harmonies are written "higher" than the original melody. Harmonizing down can interfere with and muddy the original melody line, making the listener unsure which melody is meant to be the true focus of the song.
http://www.ehow.com/how_4841948_harmonize-melodies.html#
Let me know if you guys have more technics to harmonize a melody.
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- KVRian
- 1084 posts since 12 Sep, 2008 from Your basement
Actually the first inversion of the C triad would have the E in the bass. The second inversion would have a G in the bass and when the C is in the bass, it's just called "root position."BoyWonder wrote:... chord of C, in the second inversion (starting on E)
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 355 posts since 21 May, 2006
Correct.Ogg Vorbis wrote:Actually the first inversion of the C triad would have the E in the bass. The second inversion would have a G in the bass and when the C is in the bass, it's just called "root position."BoyWonder wrote:... chord of C, in the second inversion (starting on E)
I basically meant the second 'shape' of the C chord ( E, G, C) which is as you say the first inversion. The other clarifications you offered weren't really needed.
"Producing music so bad, even TIMBALAND won't rip it off"
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
You should if it sounds right, and only then.BoyWonder wrote:Hi, I have a question about using inversions in a song.
To try and explain, lets say the track was just vocal and piano, and say my chords are, C, F, G. If the vocal melody starts on say E, should I play the chord of C starting on E? ...
Doubling the melody note in the bass when it's the third of the chord, *can* sound good sometimes, but you didn't like it... I can tell you this much: doubling the third where other voices in a triad are not doubled can seem unbalanced and even harsh, and there are combos of intruments which can aggravate this.
There is no per se guideline, 'double the melody in the bass'... Now, if there is a very thick texture and some doubling of root and fifth, maybe you'll want to support <thirds which occur in the melody> such as you arrived at here, by one or other voices...
'Inversions' are basically: 'what part of the chord in the bass'; SO, inversions are approached primarily as part-writing, particularly bass-writing at first; then you approach the harmonies in terms of voicings and balances, and textures such as doubling a part as I mentioned above. You do these things to get it to sound good. That is your fundamental priority. Any guidelines to this will be contextual. The context here is, this didn't sound good. So, don't do it.