How does REAPER do it?

[zeoy]

not all 64 bit daws are equal..yes i knew that reaper has "64 bit compatability"

yeah of course. there are differences of around -140 dB RMS or less.

(what am I doing in this thread? )

[koolkeys]

not all 64 bit daws are equal..yes i knew that reaper has "64 bit compatability"

They are? Where is the proof? Have you done the tests? I mean, you say you own EVERY SINGLE HOST, and have MASTERED them all. Surely it's a simple thing for you to prove, right?

Brent

[koolkeys]

not all 64 bit daws are equal..yes i knew that reaper has "64 bit compatability"

yeah of course. there are differences of around -140 dB RMS or less.

(what am I doing in this thread? )

See, now THIS is something I know. Why? My dog told me he heard the difference once.

Brent

[dawmaster]

ok guys when you are done finger banging your egos

OUR EGOS? You mean, WE are the ones with egos, Mr. "I have every host and all the great plug-ins because I can afford them. You are just mad that you can't, blah blah blah"?

I think you need a reality check.

i think you would agree i made a valid point..that not all code is equal as per sound processing.

Ummmm, no we don't agree. Why? Because proof has been provided for our view. You have provided zero.

granted its all ones and zero's but there is alot behihnd the coding in audio processing and there are newer albeit more cpu intensive processes' that software like protools, cubase 5 and yes even studio one pro are now utilizing within the realm of 64 bit data calculation.if you are like me you might remember the first daws with their 16 bit awesomeness...look how far we have come.look lets not get personal. i know i embellish for dramatic effect but cmon...it makes for good reading along with our technical jargon!!

I fail to see any real point in this entire quote.

Brent

i will kindly leave you and this forum to its own devices...i am sure i am not the first you have run off with your lord of the flies mentality...but in the interest of dignity and my precious studio time i wish you well...may god bless you and yours..i know when i am not wanted. thank you for your time and allowing me to speak on your forum.

[koolkeys]

ok guys when you are done finger banging your egos

OUR EGOS? You mean, WE are the ones with egos, Mr. "I have every host and all the great plug-ins because I can afford them. You are just mad that you can't, blah blah blah"?

I think you need a reality check.

i think you would agree i made a valid point..that not all code is equal as per sound processing.

Ummmm, no we don't agree. Why? Because proof has been provided for our view. You have provided zero.

granted its all ones and zero's but there is alot behihnd the coding in audio processing and there are newer albeit more cpu intensive processes' that software like protools, cubase 5 and yes even studio one pro are now utilizing within the realm of 64 bit data calculation.if you are like me you might remember the first daws with their 16 bit awesomeness...look how far we have come.look lets not get personal. i know i embellish for dramatic effect but cmon...it makes for good reading along with our technical jargon!!

I fail to see any real point in this entire quote.

Brent

i will kindly leave you and this forum to its own devices...i am sure i am not the first you have run off with your lord of the flies mentality...but in the interest of dignity and my precious studio time i wish you well...may god bless you and yours..i know when i am not wanted. thank you for your time and allowing me to speak on your forum.

Nobody said you weren't wanted. But if you're going to make claims, back them up. Then we can all be friends in this virtual world. By pouting and leaving, you just show that you don't have anything to back up what you said.

It's nothing personal, and nobody has a problem with you posting if you speak sensibly. Wanna have a good conversation? Show some tests that give you the impression that you are right, and we'll discuss them. If you can't, just say you can't and we'll get over it.

No need to run away and pretend that everyone hates you or something. I don't even know you. And don't start your KVR life saying that you own every host and all the top name plug-ins and people who criticize your favorite hosts are doing so because they can't afford high quality plug-ins. Doesn't exactly make you popular. It's your fault, not ours.

Brent

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[audiobot202]

Wow...maybe some people here should go back and read those posts about science/religion/subjectivity/secularism. Ironically, they have more to do with this thread than people at first thought

[sys2074]

Ah host turf wars! always entertaining!

The really interesting question is: How did the Reaper-guys manage to write such a slick, efficient application where other big companies fail immensely with this task and write bloatware instead?!

[koolkeys]

Ah host turf wars! always entertaining!

The really interesting question is: How did the Reaper-guys manage to write such a slick, efficient application where other big companies fail immensely with this task and write bloatware instead?!

I don't know what is behind each application code-wise, but I'm just waiting for somebody to make a legitimate definition of "bloat". Everyone says the host they like is slick and fast, and others are bloated. Why? What IS bloat? And why does it make a host worse than another?

Not trying to argue. I just want to know. People use the term all the time. So somebody define it. Tell me what makes a host bloated and another not bloated. Honestly, I doubt there really is a good definition. I expect that most of the definitions that people use will be something that is 100% opinion based on what they need or don't need in a host, instead of anything concrete.

So yeah, define "bloat" in a host.

Brent

[Goratrix]

I'm just waiting for somebody to make a legitimate definition of "bloat". Everyone says the host they like is slick and fast, and others are bloated. Why? What IS bloat? And why does it make a host worse than another?

using too many shared libraries and/or frameworks, instead of coding the needed functionality yourself. those libraries: 1. take up too much RAM, 2. are sometimes coded a lot less efficiently, therefore are slower.

[bullshark]

So yeah, define "bloat" in a host.

Brent

Software that come with truckload of "content" that one might have no use for, but force download/install it anyway.(arheu...live anyone?)

Software that "take ownership" of your station, spreading files and folder all over the place, changing association and writing a full encyclopedia to the registry without even asking.(arheu...Sonar anyone?)

Software that insist on updating you system dll with... older freaking copies!(arheu...Vegas anyone?)

Any software that let secondary functionalities obscure the primary functions.

I could go on, but you get the general idea.

[zeoy]

I'm just waiting for somebody to make a legitimate definition of "bloat". Everyone says the host they like is slick and fast, and others are bloated. Why? What IS bloat? And why does it make a host worse than another?

using too many shared libraries and/or frameworks, instead of coding the needed functionality yourself. those libraries: 1. take up too much RAM, 2. are sometimes coded a lot less efficiently, therefore are slower.

I always thought that the term bloat refers to features only <0.1% of the DAW users need but they are included and make the whole app more complicated.

[koolkeys]

I'm just waiting for somebody to make a legitimate definition of "bloat". Everyone says the host they like is slick and fast, and others are bloated. Why? What IS bloat? And why does it make a host worse than another?

using too many shared libraries and/or frameworks, instead of coding the needed functionality yourself. those libraries: 1. take up too much RAM, 2. are sometimes coded a lot less efficiently, therefore are slower.

Do you know which hosts use too many shared libraries? Have you seen their code? Has anyone seen it who uses the word "bloat"?

And what is too much RAM? What is the measuring stick for "less efficient" and "slower"? I run hosts that are NOT Reaper that have as good of performance as it has, but I've seen others call them "bloated".

So I still don't see the point in calling something bloated. Saying you don't like it, or that it didn't perform as well on your machine, sure. But bloated? Says who?

Brent

[bullshark]

In all fairness, for the average Reaper users who is used to download a full working copy of his software in a mere 4.4 MBs package including plug ins, install it in 6.5 seconds flat, start it in 2.3 seconds and have the ability to run it from a simple USB drive without having to call the pope for permission to use it, anything else will have a flavoring of bloat attached to it.

[koolkeys]

So yeah, define "bloat" in a host.

Brent

Software that come with truckload of "content" that one might have no use for, but force download/install it anyway.(arheu...live anyone?)

So delete it, or choose not to install it. MOST hosts give you the option of what to install or not.

And what about those people who DO want and use the extra content? Is it still bloat to them? Of course not. So that's not a definition of bloat. That's a personal preference, and one that can be gotten around.

Software that "take ownership" of your station, spreading files and folder all over the place, changing association and writing a full encyclopedia to the registry without even asking.(arheu...Sonar anyone?)

How many applications do you know that ASK to write to the registry? That's just silly. The registry is a part of Windows. As long as it's related to the program, who cares?

It's not hard to find all the files and folders that Sonar or any other host uses, btw. And if I'm going to be using the machine day in and day out, why does it matter if all the files are in one place or not? If you want to run Reaper on a flash drive, great. But that doesn't matter to MOST people, I would guess. Therefore, not a definition of bloat, but a personal preference and opinion, no?

Software that insist on updating you system dll with... older freaking copies!(arheu...Vegas anyone?)

Well, any software should check for a newer copy. I'll agree with that. But bloat? I don't think so. Sloppiness, maybe. But this isn't something that most hosts do as far as I have seen.

Any software that let secondary functionalities obscure the primary functions.

Give an example. I mean, when it comes to functionalities of a host, who decides what is useful and what is bloat? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean?

I could go on, but you get the general idea.

Honestly, I don't. All I see are things that you or somebody else may not personally like. But it's not something that I would call "bloat".

I know it probably sounds like I'm just blindly dismissing everything you say, but I'm not. It's a genuine question. I don't like the word "bloat" because 99% of the time I've seen it, it is referring to something that the particular user just doesn't like, but not something definitive.

Brent