KVR Audio

xybre · Post by **xybre** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:09 am

CypherOne wrote:yes, the sequencer runs, it just makes no sound.

Hey Cypher, I use XT2 as my main DAW and it (the Beta1) works fine here on both of my computers, each dual core, one is AMD and the other Intel, on Windows 7x64 and XP Pro x32.

I wrote a pretty comprehensive manual for Beta1 which you can find on the first page or here: VB-303 Docs. There's a basic How-To section at the end which should get you started. As far as I know it is mostly applicable to Beta2 as well, with a few changes (I haven't updated it to reflect antto's modifications).

Might sound silly, but make sure the plugin is routed to an output and that your audio card is working properly. It should work like any other plugin, so if you are able to get sound out of another SynthEdit plugin (try Superwave P8, its free) then you should be set up properly with a compatible system.

If you still have problems, I can try to troubleshoot it a little more if you post in this thread, but you might be SOL.

antto · Post by **antto** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:59 pm

BTW, the synth (both releases) are with only 1 audio output (mono) so this might make a difference
in FLStudio, it the mono audio output is automaticaly duplicated, but i noticed in LMMS (a pretty nice young freeware DAW) that the audio was just sent to the Left channel, the Right being silent

but anyway, try what xybre said

btw, xybre, don't try to reflect the changes in Beta2 since it's silly, v1.0 will have even more changes/new stuff ;]

btw, has any one experienced problems loading FreeBee patterns from ABL2?
i have a bunch of patterns, but i think they are from ABL1.5 or something, and they load perfectly, but it seems there is some newer FreeBee format, with comment lines (starting with the ";" character) which my sequencer fails to load (that's not surprising)

any clues? are there comment lines in the latest ABL FreeBee patterns or not?
i can update my sequencer to skip these comments..

xybre · Post by **xybre** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:10 pm

antto wrote:btw, xybre, don't try to reflect the changes in Beta2 since it's silly, v1.0 will have even more changes/new stuff ;]

Oh I know, I'd only put an "Addendum" if anything, but really I'm just waiting, I was pretty happy with beta1, so every thing you improve after that is a bonus.

mztk · Post by **mztk** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:56 am

antto wrote:wow, thanks
beta or beta2 you have?

i am kinda interested in synthesizing drums, tho, i use Drumatic3 which has a good 808 Kit, i'm not (yet) 808/909 obsessed, so it's good enough for me (tho, i really want a 909 too, but i haven't found anything freeware so far)

i think i didn't get what you mean about clone of clones, and decent programming..
this is a 303-like synth, with some additional features, made with SynthEdit, and the most specific modules i coded myself, i got a lot of help from a bunch of guys too, which was vital..
and, erm, you know it's not finished yet..

sorry for the GUI, now i just have almost no free time to redo it from zero..
tho, i already have added a lot of new stuff that need either knobs, switches, displays or whatever
redoing the GUI might be easier than changing this one to fit the new stuff
i still got work to do, GUI comes last.. we'll see

no, dont thank me, thank you; i love this thing, have tried both versions and they work together; not too sure if sounds different in beta2, have tended to go for the neater looking v1 so far;
my ref to clones was to the abl bassline and the phoscyon, and you dont mind since you're referring to loading presets..
(is this Synthedit based?)
my only criticism, based on my sh*tty monitoring is that the sound is a bit gritty by comparison to those; so it limits what you can do; i go for the wappy clean 303 sound;(damn, battery about to pack up..); like the pwm thing with second osc; and as far as an 808/909

(...) anyway, keen to see what you do with this next; its the new 'badboys edition' atm!

antto · Post by **antto** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:06 pm

mztk: yes, this synth was made in SynthEdit, with my own modules (and some of the standart ones)
the sound in beta2 is a lot better than beta1, i did a lot of analysis after beta1, and i still do (and currently, the sound is even better than beta2, but you can't hear that yet)

what do you mean about the sound, i didn't understand
btw, i have analyzed the sound of a real TB-303 (rv0 provided a pile of high-quality audio samples) very closely, and, uhm.. now it sounds very close (and this was after beta2)

the audio samples were recorded directly from the TB-303 into the computer, so the sound of my synth is meant to immitate what you'll get by pluging a TB-303 into your soundcard (think of the A/D high-pass filter)
but there is more, my plan is to leave some knobs on the backpanel (or somewhere) so you can actually tweak these highpass filters as you like (for example: to get the sound of a cheaper A/D convertor)

i also changed the square waveform (it was a real pain in the a$$ to get similar behaviour)
now there is no PWM, the symmetry of the square wave depends on the frequency of the oscillator, and there is no controll over it (i can add some) .. it's based on my analysis
i can upload some audio samples with 1:1 comparisons so you can get an idea how close it is

i got some new ideas about adding more waveforms to chose from:
1. Sawtooth (303)
2. Square (303, no PWM control*)
3. Sawtooth variation (something that looks like it was a sawtooth once)
4. Square (simple one, manual PWM, nothing magical)
and maybe more, if i can think of something that sounds nice

more distortion types (new, and better than before)

currently, i have two different filters (and i'll probably add 1 or 2 more)
1. 303-ladder (the closest one, really great filter, thanks to kunn)
2. modified-moog-ladder (lot's of people were involved, sound very good too)
3. my old filter (from beta1, but without the bugs, and a little bit improved)
4. maybe a StateVariable filter here?

more and more i think i'll HAVE to remake the whole GUI, so it'll be bigger

glad you like it
so little time, so much work to do.. ahhh..

mztk · Post by **mztk** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:11 pm

gonna go and give 'em some waapp now..
listening can be very subjective due to lots of factors,(like my sh*tty monitoring); and i no expert,probably knackered my ears; remember thinking the old tritium sounded just like a mb33 mkII, which is a 303clone, but neither has a sequencer like that; i once plugged a mc202 into a moog rogue, which completely transformed it, and i wished i'd had a 303 as a sequencer, for the patterns. all the accents worked, everything, it was cool; woulda been good with a pro one too..or any cv+gate synth probably. like the sound of those custom filter modules...

VSTJuNkiE · Post by **VSTJuNkiE** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:45 am

@ antto

iz it V 1.0 time yet...

(or maybe a new beta

...btw, thx for all your hard work

)

antto · Post by **antto** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:59 am

no, sadly, i still got lot's of stuff to do, i can release more "in-between" betas but i don't want to flood the internet with uglyness

the only spare time i have that i can actually do some decent work on the synth is saturday after 14:00 (but i'm tired as hell) and the whole sunday
thru the week i just fall asleep on the keyboard

antto · Post by **antto** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:09 pm

i cleared/updated the bugfix/todo list on the first page

i finaly fixed the FreeBee loading issues, now using std::strings instead of char-arrays, blah
the sequencer can now load .pat files with comments (lines begining with ";")
tho, there is a restriction on how many comment lines it'll read before giving up (in case you accidentaly try to load some 1GB file or something)

the moog-ladder was "hacked" so it behaves closer to the 303-ladder (it still sounds a little different, which is good)

the square wave is no longer bandlimited, i tryied to model the square-shaping circuit and this produces aliasing, but consider the maximum usable frequency of the tb-303 oscillator, and the minimum sampling rate i recomend - the aliasing is very quiet, i could also add an optional antialiasing filter in there
...sawtooth is still antialiased as before, but now there is no need for one of the wavetables (like in the beta) and the oscillator initialisation time will be twice shorter ;]

speaking of initialisation - i'll try to avoid any other lookup tables in the filters too

Sequencer - slides: i figured how it works and i used a filter instead of my "tempo-synced bullcrap" curve
the slide curve is the response of a 1 pole LP filter, and the time is not dependant on anything, done with that ;]

j_p · Post by **j_p** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:36 am

Having a lot of fun with this. Cheers antto.

heathen · Post by **heathen** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:50 am

i think this is a great sounding synth and i use it all the time for that acid sound.
it makes me feel like i am astral projection or something, mid nineties goa trance.
i love it.
i would like to have more options as far as programing the sequencer, and i would pay for this if it ever came to that...

antto · Post by **antto** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:43 am

thanks both of you ;]
heathen: i got some ideas floating around my head about the sequencer..

the pattern modifiers section ("To All" "Invert" ..) it currently modifies the whole pattern, i plan to add a selection to this so you can modify a selected range of steps
this way you could (for example) randomize only the steps from step02 to step05 without messing the others

and i'm also thinkering about a new "live" programing thing
it's kinda hard to explain..
you first select a pattern (thru a MIDI note) then switch to this "live" mode
now the pattern you selected is "locked" and when you play MIDI notes - you will hear them, and they will be "catched" by the sequencer
then when you're ready, you switch to the normal programing mode, and the pattern is saved in the sequencer, and unlocked..
this is just a rough idea..

i'm now trying to refine the damn gimmick circuit again

antto · Post by **antto** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:44 pm

vb303_beta2_new_test04.mp3 (5.6MB)
hi guys, i replaced the whole MEG+VEG sections with 1 simple module
originaly i did these with standard SE modules, meaning a huge amount of multiplyers, ADSRs (yeah, even tho i used only the decay) and peak followers..
now i got a single module, which recieves GATE and ACCENT CV signals from the sequencer..
this also means that i have totaly replaced the gimmick circuit, it's now built in too, and better, no peak followers anymore ;]

also, i have rewritten the synth-side part of the sequencer (what plays the synth)
now it is much simpler..
oh, and there is shuffle! haha!

there are some things that i had to remove tho..
ACCDECAY <- this "extra" knob is no longer available
the decay time on accented notes is "fixed" like in the original 303, because of this new gimmick circuit, which is based on the envelopes behaviour, different behaviour would make the gimmick much different (extremely!) so this decay time will remain constant, sorry
SHORTR <- this "extra" knob is also removed now..

on the other hand, i did some small additions to the sequencer
SHIFT MODE, a switch, this probably is not the best name for it, it changes the way some functions work
it has 2 options "whole pattern" "used steps only"
so, imagine you got a pattern of 4 steps (it's always 16, but you have used only 4 of them) now if you select "used steps only" and you shift the pattern, only the four steps will be shifted, the rest of the pattern (the unused steps) will remain how they are..
"whole pattern" is the behaviour of beta1 ;]
the "ORDER" modifier, which could reverse the pattern, or randomize the step order, now has another function "To All"
again, imagine a pattern of 4 steps, press Go, and these four steps will be "tiled" over the whole length of the pattern (copied in other words)

SHIFT MODE will also affect the way these modifiers work, as described above..

the audio demo i just uploaded demonstrates the new sound (in-the-mix & solo/dry) and the shuffle function
in the first part, the vb303 is processed only by a delay line, reverb(master), and single-band compressor(master)
all other instruments were sequenced in the Host step sequencer (FL) using it's own shuffle
both shuffle knobs (of the host, and my synth) were automated with a single controler (Formula controler)
it's kinda funky ;P~

heathen · Post by **heathen** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:11 pm

maybe this is a stupid idea....
as far as the sequencer goes...
maybe a more visual way of programing it?
like a piano roll type input or some sort of text editor?
anyway i really like this thing, but because of the difficulty of programing the sequencer i probably use it less than i would.
of course its not like the real thing was very easy to program either, and that was, i reckon, the reason for an entire new genre of music being born.
its limitations are part of the appeal, i guess...

antto · Post by **antto** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:54 pm

i've discussed the pattern sequencer with rv0 (the guy who has TWO TB-303s..)
no software clone has the exact same sequencer as the TB-303 (not that it's impossible for someone to clone it, noo)
most software clones have kinda similar 303-like pattern editor, it's still considered "difficult" by most people, but actually - not

what's harder to understand? the real 303 pattern editor, or the software clones? well, both are confusing if you are lazy ;]
actually, i asked rv0 all the questions that were confusing me, and when he answered i just had to be concentrated for 10 minutes to understand what he told me, then i watched a couple of videos of "how to program a tb-303" and i got it
well, you can program the same pattern on the 303 faster that you can on a software clone, tho, both results will be the same ;]

my conclusion: both the tb-303 pattern editor and a software clone is different than what musicians are used to do, so, it's more like playing tetris? but it's really simple once you get the hang of it (that depends on you)
yeah, a tb-303 can be MIDI-modded and you can then "sequence" melodies like a real musician (software clones got external sequencing mode too, it's the equivalent of a midi-modded tb-303)
but WHY?
as you mentioned, the fact that it is DIFFERENT than any other instrument is the reason for a whole new genre of music to be born, not to mention the other hardware and software instruments and sequencers which were inspired by it..

you can sequence ABL, Phoscyon, and a bunch of other real good software clones externaly (in your piano-roll, like any normal synth) .. ok
i really know what i have to do there to get an equivalent result to what i can sequence in the internal sequencer, there are some rules i will follow, so what i do in the piano-roll will still be acid
but why would i do that? there is no fun like that, and i will need to be concentrated all the time (following the rules, so i don't accidentaly make a silly pattern (non-303))

so, instead.. i use the internal sequencer, no matter what i do with it - the result will always be a 303 pattern
and any accident will result in a potential acid track ;]

musicians who don't care to understand how the sequencer works (or not even give it a try) and use the piano roll instead <- they abuse the instrument, this is no way to make acid, this leads to experimental music .. which is definately not bad, but don't fool yourself "ok i'll do some 303 acid but i think i can do it in the piano-roll"

my sequencer is still not a clone, it is similar to all the software clones, but i like how it's beginning to take shape, with all these l337 features, which are unique and yet different, after some time when (if) someone gives it a try, and reads the documentation, he will find that it is powerfull.. no, you don't draw your notes so easy, but once you have some simple pattern, you have lots of tools to modify it beyond recognition (randomize, shift, reverse..)

btw, i have an idea about stacking 16 buttons with 16 LEDs which can show all accents (or any other on/off property) and a big switch to select which property you want to see/edit (this is kinda like TR-808 i think)
this is doable, unfortunately, the pitch property will still be "hidden"
that's just an idea..

again, people should respect the 303, and the 303-inspired synths, and take the time to learn how to use them (or at least try)
if not - use any other synth, there will always exist people who will learn 303 programing to produce acid ;]

i can see how this style of programing music changes the way my own music sounds, and i like the result, erm, i LOVE it ;]

Link: Venom VB-303 VSTi (Beta release)