Best amp-modeling plugin?

[chj]

... i think that sometimes... no most of the time... too many options is actually crippling to creativity, because you end up playing with the stuff instead of making music.

Yep, that's me, always trying to perfect me tones.........but I don't care, I want to tweak tones!!!!

ymmrv

Both posts are so applicable to me right now. I've hardly made any music since getting GR4. But tweaking tones in GR4 has been the most fun I've had with music in awhile. Every now and then a tone inspires a riff which I hastily record so I can back to the serious business of ... tweaking more tones!

[hibidy]

That's really interesting, because it's been that way for me too.......curses to GR4 (especially today with the new public beta )

[Hink]

for me it's about going "there", "there" is mine, "there" is safe, "there" is peace, "there" has many things to explore, even pain is good "there". I'm a selfish musician, I do this for me and I want all the fulfillment for myself. When I was 20 years younger I would wonder what I would do if I didn't "make it", I know now...I still get to go "there", but I have a lot more vehicles

[susiwong]

That's really interesting, because it's been that way for me too.......curses to GR4 (especially today with the new public beta )

It's an evil plot by NI to convert the last few guitar players to electronica addicts.
Watch your baseball cap, when it's rotating by 180 degrees you're in serious trouble.
Cheers,
susiwong

[Dean Aka Nekro]

So Hink if you do not mind me asking man, have you and/or do you find bass inteded amps (real or virtual) useful for guitar use?

I never come across many people that do you see: so it nothing more than pure curiosity really. I imagine a baritone scale length would lend itself well to the more solid lows on a bass cab? I used to have a baritone and found that through my now no longer with me beloved H&H Bass Amp 100 and a dirt pedal + 1x15" it did the baritone justice oppose to the (Marshall) DSL50 and 4x12.

All the best and take care

Nekro/Dean

Don't know about distorted baritones, and I'm not Hink , but for the twangy sound popular in country, blues or roots rock a Fender style guitar amp with an open 212 or 410 cab is the ticket, my Gretsch tuned E to E is no exception.
Tremolo and a touch of spring reverb or tape delay are welcome.
A modern bass amp makes the baritone sound kinda generic, like a mediocre real bass in a way, tried it twice, forgot about it.
But thinking about your low tuned SVX clip, things might be different in metal land, especially since you probably wouldn't go below A to A ?
Ymmv,
susiwong

most definitely staying away from distortion is the way to go for me, since writing the above I found the bass pro in GR4 and the multi speaker/mic emulation and the treble booster (set very low) to be the best so far. Cabs I use 2 4x10s and two 1x15 (as if each 8x10 is on a 1x15), it's very clean and very well defined. I hope soon to finish up a project with it and I wont be using a bass guitar at all. I have it tuned to Cm right now (C>C), a little boomy, a little bright and with a pinch of chorus (after recording) it's Thumbs Up! However the baritone does have an EMG PA2 pre-amp at about 10% so it helps the signal stay consistent.

Erm i am guitlty of dropping down to drop-G (A with the lowest string down) on a 6-string! but thats the lowest i have gone knowingly - you know when one is just messing around and tuning by ear? well i could of and probably have done it as i was too lazy to plug into a tuner. Thanks for the info though guys as it matters not what are styles/sounds are like really as long as we like them ourselves at the end of the day and thats the important part, you know when you're playing away and forget about the pedals, amps and cabs are even their ain't it!

On a further note (no pun intended) The old Fender Showmaster's were a clean amp aimed at guitarists with 2 x 2x15" cabs was it not? I think i remember reading an article on the showmaster and vaugely it being dick dale's amp of choice > but susi (as you know already) and hink (if you had not gathered) i am not very well up on my Fender Amps and man their are so many that are either legendary and even the lesser spotted models are usually coveted by folks over all the years i think i would need a book dedicated to fender's amps to catch up properly (not mentioning the likes of victoria who in a nutshell build fender amps really!). Thanks for the reply's guys i appreciate them as i thought that it was percieved as heresy to use bass orientated amps/cabs for use with guitar - until i rememberd one Fender amp i do know: The old Bassman! How damned stupid of me And i guess that is sort of my answer! Still fascinating history, real/virtual...etc.

All the best and catch up with you good people soon

Dean

PS: my microCube was lent out and never returned so i replaced it yesterday with a Cube20X - they are wonderful little jam amps indeed. Not had a play with the bassCube series...yet GAS

[Chester Desmond]

Erm i am guitlty of dropping down to drop-G (A with the lowest string down) on a 6-string!

I imagine the biggest downside to this would be that you always catch the kids skipping rope with the E string..

[Stupid American Pig]

I find myself ignoring amplitube 2 but using Amplitube JHE for bass, and Amplitube Fender for leads and loving every tone I get...

[metalifuxx]

My friend has his dad's old Fender Bandmaster (1950s-60 model) head and matching 2x12 cab, and it really is nothing special, granted at the time it wasn't their most top of the line amp either. I usually bring my Soldano head over, or use his spare Marshall jcm 900 head into the cab which has some nice greenbacks in there. Even with an OD or distortion pedal, it still sounds like a grainy solid state type amp.

[benjamind]

Of course, all these amp modelling plugins are totally useless to someone who can't play a guitar. Still waiting, still waiting for a guitar modelling plugin.

And Strum-Electric isn't really going to cut it. Sounds fake, almost like one of those cheap MIDI keyboards. Of course, I'd have to disregard any sample-based solution either, you can't play samples, you can trigger them though as pathetic and lame as that may seem...unless it's something by Samplemodeling.

Ben

[chj]

Of course, all these amp modelling plugins are totally useless to someone who can't play a guitar. Still waiting, still waiting for a guitar modelling plugin.

RealGuitar is praised by many as the best available. I play guitar so I've never used it, but I've heard some clips combined with ampsims that are pretty convincing. Prominy's guitar vsti's get good mention as well as some stuff from Pettinhouse and Orange Tree.

[benjamind]

Yes, but they still use samples, and as we all know this only too well - samples are just not going to cut it for a truly realistic guitar sound. Ever tried doing some really dynamic guitar-specific things (like say some crazy slides and bends, squeaks, divebombs, slide harmonics etc) with any sampled-based instrument lately? You can do this easily with physical modeling provided that it is of course done correctly.

To my ears, OrangeTree guitar sounds the best. I've heard the rest, and to be honest, they don't fool me. Prominy...good lord, how many GBs of RAM choking samples do they use? Isn't it like 40+GB...good grief, and even still I bet there are things that just cann ot be done with even these products.

Which is why I am waiting for Efflam to release his much awaited plugins. Whether he'll release them this year, or next year, or the one after that, is anyone's guess. I really can't say, he hasn't mentioned anything even remotely close to anything that which would imply it would be released any time soon.

But listen to the clip "Best of dark lady 2" on the Mokafix website. If these don't sound like guitars and basses, then one must have some pretty serious hearing problems. To me I can't really can't distinguish them from the real thing. They sound like a live band, to be serious. What I hear in that clip sounds like living breathing instruments, as opposed to a bunch of pre-recorded samples slapped on top of each other trying to sound like guitars and basses. And every time I hear sample libraries, I get that impression. Maybe it's due to the fact that I used to play bass in high school. I get a feel for string instruments, and as far as I'm concerned, samples are not going to cut the mustard.

I'll put 2+ years on it. It seems that's the way these things often turn out. So close, yet so, so far away. I'd say at the absolute bare minimum, 6 months. But I think it's more like 12 months. That's probably a safe bet.

*Cough* ehem, now...time to get back to electro and ambient type stuff. Without guitars and basses, there is really no really point in trying to make music that features these instruments because really they don't exist. Probably not for a long while yet. So...*cough* ehem, forget Jazz, forget Rock/Pop/Folk, forget that stuff, because every time I think about that, I feel like a dog chasing it's tail. It's really a world of serious pain. It's time to get the f**k out of this empty and boring room and find another room, a room where there is plenty of action. That room goes under the title of "Electronica, Techno, Dance, Ambient". hehehe

RealGuitar is praised by many as the best available. I play guitar so I've never used it, but I've heard some clips combined with ampsims that are pretty convincing. Prominy's guitar vsti's get good mention as well as some stuff from Pettinhouse and Orange Tree.

[Sascha Franck]

Ever tried doing some really dynamic guitar-specific things (like say some crazy slides and bends, squeaks, divebombs, slide harmonics etc) with any sampled-based instrument lately? You can do this easily with physical modeling provided that it is of course done correctly.

Wrong, just wrong. Fortunately!
The day you play me something like the guitar pattern of "Le Freak" in realtime on a keyboard, I may believe you. But you won't be able to do that in this century.

- Sascha

[chj]

I agree, I think you're putting way too much faith in this upcoming product and you're bound to be disappointed. You have to accept the shortcomings of any VST/sample based instrument and make it work within its range.

There's no way VST (even physically modeled) horns or strings can match a true virtuso player, but plenty of people use them effectively within a certain range. Same with guitar. Honestly it might be easier to learn to play than to convincingly program entire songs that have crazy bends, slides, squeaks, divebombs, etc. As mentioned, just getting the basic rhythm sound of Le Freak seems like it would be a huge pain in the butt to program, but playing the basic rhythm is not difficult.

[Hink]

Ever tried doing some really dynamic guitar-specific things (like say some crazy slides and bends, squeaks, divebombs, slide harmonics etc) with any sampled-based instrument lately? You can do this easily with physical modeling provided that it is of course done correctly.

Wrong, just wrong. Fortunately!
The day you play me something like the guitar pattern of "Le Freak" in realtime on a keyboard, I may believe you. But you won't be able to do that in this century.

- Sascha

this probably wont be a very popular opinion but I only agree to an extent because it really matters who is doing the listening. A lot of us are more aware of flaws that might go unheard by other listeners

[chj]

True, there are some people that think Slayer sounds great. Of course this isn't a subjective opinion, any such people are just plain WRONG . However, benjamind seems to be one of those listeners that hears the flaws in even the best existing guitar simulators. I'm not sure if he should really get his hopes too high that this new product will really eliminate those flaws.