Why don't more developers create AUs as well as VSTs?

[Zaphod (giancarlo)]

well I think the analogy is different.
Do you remember mp3? first time I discovered them I thought: end of big money for the music industry
About computers and plugins I though the same. End of big money for the recording industry. Ok, we are deeply OT

[eigentone]

eigentone

Uhm... I don't think so. Instead, I think the quality and expectations for a record to be engineered well have declined. Many of the home recordists don't have as much money to drop at the studio (self-financed and spent most of their money on their setup), and signed artists don't net as much for studios (because advances/recording budgets generally are smaller and fewer).

I'll put it this way:
At one point (est. 2005) I was calling to studios out of a phone book (that was current/less than a year old), about 1 in 4 had closed for business. I had not heard of some, but there were many which were reputable.

fair enough ... I'm only guessing.

I remember when Powerpoint presentations first hit the market.

Some multimedia presentation companies quickly folded once peeps could make their own presentations. And the number of amateur presentations being produced grew exponentially (just as bedroom recordists did with DAWs)

But nowadays there are more pro powerpoint production companies than ever before.

The market for pro presentations has grown as more people became aware of the difference between what they could do in the office - and what a pro could do in a studio.

I transferred this analogy to bedroom and pro studio recordists.

But it might well be bollocks

Well, again, I am not referring to hard stats either (well, for what they are worth). There has been a huge shift towards home recording and independent releases. As far as music, there are many studios who have turned focus to other areas (i.e. sound for film) in the past decade (since native multitrack recording started gaining a lot of momentum and became generally accessible to self financed musicians). The technology has improved, the tools have improved. The accessibility does not improve the lives of studio owners (partly due to the increase in suites), so it's shifted from a tough industry to an easy industry to enter, though difficult to maintain (at all ends). Many good engineers have left the industry, many good ones have been born, but I think from an engineering standpoint, the bar is lower these days. A lot of home recordists engineer their projects and it (IMHO) reduces the quality of the production *and* the music more often than not. It's a craft, and it cannot be learned overnight, some bedroom producers take the time to learn, and produce phenomenal results - there are genres based on this form of muso-evolution.

At least that is how I see bedroom studios replacing pro studios (as a trend).

J

[eigentone]

well I think the analogy is different.
Do you remember mp3? first time I discovered them I thought: end of big money for the music industry
About computers and plugins I though the same. End of big money for the recording industry. Ok, we are deeply OT

I thought revenue from album sales would have declined significantly (mostly false, but the medium has changed). Well, the recording industry... hmm... as I see it, a lot of that money has shifted to revenues for the computer (hardware & software) industry, rather than professional recording services. There's actually been a noticeable increase in low/mid priced instrument sales as well. It makes recording accessible for musicians and generates a bit of work in the software realm, but I don't think the pro production houses are better off as a result.

J

[planet trauma]

I imagine that's because PC users don't need studios any more, they can do it all at home, so the studios rely on stupid Mac people to eek out a living. I bet if you go into the office though, you'll find them using PCs for everything non customer-facing.

Statements like this are why not many REAL audio professionals take KVR seriously. A computer in your bedroom with the latest and greatest plugins and DAW is NOT a recording studio but with proper monitoring and treatment you will have a good start. But it still won't be a recording studio.

well, apart the word "stupid" (I don't agree, it's a "strong" expression), BONES described very well the new trend. Things are changing, and pretty quickly. The bedroom is the new RECORDING studio.

The bedroom is a good place to demo tunes or mix/master IF you have the proper monitoring and treatment. Get it straight though, a studio is a room or group of rooms acoustically treated that you put instruments in to mic up and record. A computer is just a recording device.

[eigentone]

I imagine that's because PC users don't need studios any more, they can do it all at home, so the studios rely on stupid Mac people to eek out a living. I bet if you go into the office though, you'll find them using PCs for everything non customer-facing.

Statements like this are why not many REAL audio professionals take KVR seriously. A computer in your bedroom with the latest and greatest plugins and DAW is NOT a recording studio but with proper monitoring and treatment you will have a good start. But it still won't be a recording studio.

well, apart the word "stupid" (I don't agree, it's a "strong" expression), BONES described very well the new trend. Things are changing, and pretty quickly. The bedroom is the new RECORDING studio.

The bedroom is a good place to demo tunes or mix/master IF you have the proper monitoring and treatment. Get it straight though, a studio is a room or group of rooms acoustically treated that you put instruments in to mic up and record. A computer is just a recording device.

Truthfully, a computer is not just a recording device.

[planet trauma]

As far as the OP topic, if you concentrate on the music more than the tools you'll win. A great tune with great playing will mix itself and sound killer even with stock lackluster bundled DAW plugs. All the good stuff by legit developers is cross-platform, anyway.

[planet trauma]

I imagine that's because PC users don't need studios any more, they can do it all at home, so the studios rely on stupid Mac people to eek out a living. I bet if you go into the office though, you'll find them using PCs for everything non customer-facing.

Statements like this are why not many REAL audio professionals take KVR seriously. A computer in your bedroom with the latest and greatest plugins and DAW is NOT a recording studio but with proper monitoring and treatment you will have a good start. But it still won't be a recording studio.

well, apart the word "stupid" (I don't agree, it's a "strong" expression), BONES described very well the new trend. Things are changing, and pretty quickly. The bedroom is the new RECORDING studio.

The bedroom is a good place to demo tunes or mix/master IF you have the proper monitoring and treatment. Get it straight though, a studio is a room or group of rooms acoustically treated that you put instruments in to mic up and record. A computer is just a recording device.

Truthfully, a computer is not just a recording device.

true, you can do taxes and play games them.

[eigentone]

All the good stuff by legit developers is cross-platform, anyway.

That's your opinion.
EDIT: I am curious, what makes a developer 'legit'?

[eigentone]

Truthfully, a computer is not just a recording device.

true, you can do taxes and play games them.

Yes, you can do those things (and more).

[Zaphod (giancarlo)]

well I think the analogy is different.
Do you remember mp3? first time I discovered them I thought: end of big money for the music industry
About computers and plugins I though the same. End of big money for the recording industry. Ok, we are deeply OT

I thought revenue from album sales would have declined significantly (mostly false, but the medium has changed). Well, the recording industry... hmm... as I see it, a lot of that money has shifted to revenues for the computer (hardware & software) industry, rather than professional recording services. There's actually been a noticeable increase in low/mid priced instrument sales as well. It makes recording accessible for musicians and generates a bit of work in the software realm, but I don't think the pro production houses are better off as a result.

J

For sure hardware sales are decreasing.
But money imho is not moving to the software side, at least not as it should. There is piracy and p2p. And <good> freeware (don't forget it!) is coming.
So the industry will die (well, not all companies obviously, but in general... yes, this is my forecast).

About recording services: it doesn't matter if the engineer is good or not. A lot of recording facilities are working just because the gear. Which is moving to the software side, so it will be available to everyone. Again, there will be an huge number of casual bedroom music producers. Music will be like a game. Everyone will be able to do it (maybe everything will be automated like a sort of big garageband or guitar hero), to share content on the phone, to be a <music> hero for a day. Or a <dj> for a day. Or to win the lottery and be a star for 2 hours. I know that you need quality and quality wins. BUT where there is a lot of noise around.... well..... this noise is increasing... and increasing... and increasing...

[eigentone]

For sure hardware sales are decreasing.
But money imho is not moving to the software side, at least not as it should. There is piracy and p2p. And <good> freeware (don't forget it!) is coming.
So the industry will die (well, not all companies obviously, but in general... yes, this is my forecast).

About recording services: it doesn't matter if the engineer is good or not. A lot of recording facilities are working just because the gear. Which is moving to the software side, so it will be available to everyone. Again, there will be an huge number of casual bedroom music producers. Music will be like a game. Everyone will be able to do it (maybe everything will be automated like a sort of big garageband or guitar hero), to share content on the phone, to be a <music> hero for a day. Or a <dj> for a day. Or to win the lottery and be a star for 2 hours. I know that you need quality and quality wins. BUT where there is a lot of noise around.... well..... this noise is increasing... and increasing... and increasing...

Well, I suggested that Intel (example) is seeing a fair chunk of the money now. But yes, hardware processors/synths are way down.

Software's become quite accessible, which makes development easier, and hardware/software advances also help. Aspects of the software industry have been history in fast motion since...

I don't see it 'dying', just a higher reincarnation frequency. IOW, I think there will be a market for audio/music production, but the hot developments of the times will change. Revenues may increase/decrease and shift localized markets, but I don't see it dying, or IOW being as adversely affected as the recording services industry.

Regarding the music industry, the stage is set for a revolution (in the positive sense). People still want good music, but I don't see them as flattered by or excited about new music (that's by no means stating that it is not being made, just more difficult to find, and the quality standards are lower in too many areas, despite the availability of the better technology).

J

[lagavulin16]

So to sum up this thread:

1) In the world of audio, the marketshare is around 25% mac and 75% PC.
2) At least two software companies have said 50% of their sales are to mac users, 50% to PCs.
3) Someone said they spent less money on their PC than the cheapest macbook, but it can out perform the fastest mac. So if he could please clarify what PC he spent less than 900 on that can out perform a maxed out Mac Pro, please share.
4) I have plenty of plugins, both free and otherwise, on my Mac. That said, there is a small percentage of PC only plugins I'd like to use.
5) The total cost (outside of time) to start developing and testing on a Mac is under 1000 dollars. You can make that back pretty quick if you're selling software, but not if it's freeware.

[TristezaOrange]

All the good stuff by legit developers is cross-platform, anyway.

That's your opinion.
EDIT: I am curious, what makes a developer 'legit'?

Seriously, you need to get a clue. A "legit" developer is one certified by planet trauma as legit.

[bmrzycki]

This is a simple question to answer: resources.

VST uses 1 API, AU uses another, RTAS is a third API. And they are all different. This means anyone programming a plugin to any standard has to have:

1. development time
2. debug time
2. QA/Test time

And you need to do all 3 for each supported platform.

Some people sell APIs that try to hide all of this from you (JUCE is one example). The problem is it's never 100% abstracted so the details still leak through.

It's a lot of work to make software for 1 target. It's even harder to make it for 2. It's starts getting really tricky for 2+. It's not like LinPlug or U-He can just take their vst and run it through an "AU Maker" machine.

There. Now why is this thread 11 pages?

[dbrane]

This is a simple question to answer: resources. \snip

There. Now why is this thread 11 pages?

I think someone dared say that mac users were half their market

I understand the historic reasons for numerous API's, but could a collaborative effort by enough plugin and host devs force the adoption of a single standard? Maybe with a BSD-type license?