KVR Audio

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:17 pm

Have any of you guys experimented with this feature yet? It's not revolutionary by any means but for recording multiple band songs it's pretty transparent.

- Setup your tracks and record the first song.
- Add a new layer, all audio vanishes, record another song from 0:00
- Keep doing that until you record all, say 6, songs of the band.

So now you have six separate track layers with six different songs. It's no different on the surface from using takes in any daw but here each layer has it's own independent set of takes for every layer. So if on song 3 you record 8 takes of the lead vocal and 5 takes of the backing vox they'll all reside only that layer.

So in this case with a band who are using the same instruments for every song, you mix the first, print, switch to layer 2 and use the same general plugs for the next song. Like tracking songs from a live show, just add a new layer after every song, go back to 0 and go back into record on the same tracks.

I think PT does something similar though I'm not sure each playlist has it's own set of independent takes, although it might.

The feature request I've made for this is for the ability to add markers and automation to each individual layer which would be even better for editing as you move from layer to layer and song to song.

I wish Cubase had something like that.

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:37 pm

I was gonna say that this seems to be just like Pro Tools and it's play lists. I haven't tried the Studio One method yet, but it sounds the same. I never thought of using it to mix multiple tracks with the same plugs though. That's genius! I'll have to try that with Pro Tools later as well as taking a look at Studio One for it. It's one thing I haven't really paid attention to yet.

Thanks for the info!

Brent

LiteOn · Post by **LiteOn** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:06 pm

Layers - one of those functions I never really understood by theory for a long time but after having used them just once I knew I could ever live without.

But Cubase is not alone out there: Powerpoint still doesn't support them.

Anyway, I often thought about that approach in Cubase. If designed to the most possible extend you could simply use them to allow infinite subversions within a project (file). Different re-mixes, different mixdowns, different automated fader runs? There you could have it, just copy the source layer to a new one...

Thanks for introduction, Lawrence.

Cheers,
LiteOn

siriusbliss · Post by **siriusbliss** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:20 pm

Similar functionality as loop recording/comping in Samplitude - using 'Take Manager' and Take Composer (and recently 'Revolver' tracks).

Similar feature is found in most DAWs nowadays.

Can be a very powerful tool.

Greg

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:39 pm

siriusbliss wrote:Similar functionality as loop recording/comping in Samplitude - using 'Take Manager' and Take Composer (and recently 'Revolver' tracks).

Similar feature is found in most DAWs nowadays.

Can be a very powerful tool.

Greg

Absolutely. I think this is an example of something that has been there, but I just never thought of using it that way. I HAVE used the playlists in Pro Tools for saving different VERSIONS of a part. Like saving the original and editing the other layer/copy. But I never thought about it as a way of keeping plugs consistent or anything.

Gotta explore some more for sure.

Brent

LiteOn · Post by **LiteOn** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:16 am

siriusbliss wrote:Similar feature is found in most DAWs nowadays.

Really?
I'm a bit surprised to read that statement. Has this feature really reached that degree of establishment in the DAW world yet? Didn't know that. Do you have a list at hand?

Cheers,
LiteOn

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:15 am

siriusbliss wrote:Similar functionality as loop recording/comping in Samplitude - using 'Take Manager' and Take Composer (and recently 'Revolver' tracks).

Similar feature is found in most DAWs nowadays.

Greg

Cool. I'm not familiar with Samp at all.

Thanks Greg.

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:44 am

There's another obvious more basic use for layers I didn't mention... "duplicate layer" that (duh!

) duplicates the current layer and all of it's media into a new layer, so you then can edit the new layer and try all kinds of edits.

If you don't like the edits, delete the layer and/or just switch back to the other layer. In that case you can have multiple versions of media (audio / midi) edits on the timeline on the same track at the same time and just switch between them.

This includes time positioning, so if you rearrange/chop items on a duplicated layer and/or move them around, the items on the previous layer will still be where you left them which allows things like duplicating the layers for an entire project (all current tracks) into a new layer2 and doing a completely different arrangement/edit of those media parts without disturbing the first arrangement on layer 1.

Not necessarily new, but new to me.

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:00 am

LawrenceF wrote:There's another obvious more basic use for layers I didn't mention... "duplicate layer" that (duh! ) duplicates the current layer and all of it's media into a new layer, so you then can edit the new layer and try all kinds of edits.

If you don't like the edits, delete the layer and/or just switch back to the other layer. In that case you can have multiple versions of media (audio / midi) edits on the timeline on the same track at the same time and just switch between them.

This includes time positioning, so if you rearrange/chop items on a duplicated layer and/or move them around, the items on the previous layer will still be where you left them which allows things like duplicating the layers for an entire project (all current tracks) into a new layer2 and doing a completely different arrangement of those media parts without disturbing the first arrangement on layer 1.

Not necessarily new, but new to me.

This is what I was saying above as what I use the Pro Tools playlists for. Obviously, they are for much more than that. But I use them for keeping a copy of the "original" around when moving transients and pocketing and such. I also use them for comping, which is very powerful as well. The difference is that in Pro Tools, you can actually view all the various layers/levels/whatever at the same time, as you know.

That would be cool to get into Studio One as well if you can't already.

Brent

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:22 am

koolkeys wrote:That would be cool to get into Studio One as well if you can't already.

Brent

Yes it would. You can't do that currently though.

And yes, that is certainly the kind of thing that makes PT well... PT.

PT's playlists are certainly more than people think they are.

Multiple edits of the same media in S1...

http://dawsession.com/pics/layers.mp4

Imagine if you could send a Cubase "arranger track" arrangement to a new layer in Cubase and switch between them like this instead of making a new project for the new arrangement.

That would be nice... those two things in the same host.

siriusbliss · Post by **siriusbliss** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:43 am

LawrenceF wrote:
siriusbliss wrote:Similar functionality as loop recording/comping in Samplitude - using 'Take Manager' and Take Composer (and recently 'Revolver' tracks).

Similar feature is found in most DAWs nowadays.

Greg
Cool. I'm not familiar with Samp at all.

Thanks Greg.

2 year old tutorial video showing Samplitude's Take Composer in V9 (feature was updated and expanded in V11).

or...
http://www.samplitude.com/en/community/ ... g.331.html

Greg

captain caveman · Post by **captain caveman** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:57 am

Nope, that's definately not what's being described which is more of a Take Composer Composer than just a one level Take Composer.

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:04 am

captain caveman wrote:Nope, that's definately not what's being described which is more of a Take Composer Composer than just a one level Take Composer.

No it's not. If I could graphically draw it, it would look something like this... all on one track...

Layer1--------- Layer2------- Layer3---------Layer4
Take1 _______Take1_______Take1_______Take1
Take2 _______Take2_______Take2_______Take2
Take3

Best I can do without rambling.

dgkenney · Post by **dgkenney** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:37 am

koolkeys wrote:This is what I was saying above as what I use the Pro Tools playlists for. Obviously, they are for much more than that. But I use them for keeping a copy of the "original" around when moving transients and pocketing and such. I also use them for comping, which is very powerful as well. The difference is that in Pro Tools, you can actually view all the various layers/levels/whatever at the same time, as you know.

That would be cool to get into Studio One as well if you can't already.

Brent

Great point, Brent. This is a standard work process for me. I never touch anyhting in PT without first making a duplicate playlist. As you know it's just a pointer so the real estate charge for doing it is minimal. You also have them listed out in the region list and of course they are all available in spot mode to put them in their origanl time position.

Dan

dgkenney · Post by **dgkenney** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:51 am

LawrenceF wrote:So in this case with a band who are using the same instruments for every song, you mix the first, print, switch to layer 2 and use the same general plugs for the next song. Like tracking songs from a live show, just add a new layer after every song, go back to 0 and go back into record on the same tracks.

Nice idea, Lawrence.

The only problem I see is that if you tweak a plug in one of the versions, the same tweak will affect the other versions since (I think, not sure) the layers only "protect" the recording not the track settings.

I was thinking that in PT what I would do is select all the tracks and then "duplicate tracks." The dialog box asks me what I want to carry over to the duplicate tracks and I would uncheck playlists and alternate playlists. This way I would have the same plugs and settings but if I make a change on one track's plugs it wouldn't affect the other songs. Also, for archiving, I would be able to go back to each song and have the "finished" mix the way I left it.

Just a thought.

Dan

Studio One Track Layers