PianoTeq3.5.1 vs TruePianos 1.5.0. Latest versions showdown!

[Shy]

Here is an example of a beta (sound may change/improve) upcoming TruePianos module. No processing, only added reverb. The MIDI file is here, Liszt - Grandes Etudes de Paganini, No. 4.

[rasmusklump]

....the best example why pianos shoudn't be previewd with midifiles
Sounds absolutely lifeless and like all the notes are played with the same velocity. And I am sure it is not TPs fault as I love TP way over Pianoteq.
Everytime a new Pianoteq version comes ot I download and demo it, but I wipe from the hd soon afterwards everytime.....

[electro]

MIDI files are not going to represent the instruments well enough since each plays completely different. Also, there is a much larger variety of sounds in Pianoteq so how do you decide which sounds to compare?

It may be fun to compare, but not very accurate.

Brent

Nonsense, Pianos only respond to velocity. All you have to do is make certain each VSTI has a flat velocity curve and then run the comparison.

[Shy]

Of course a midi file like this with no tempo and only simple velocity variation will most of the time result in a very "lifeless" performance compared to a real one. The point is that there is no edge whatsoever given to TP here, and the same would be true with PT, sample libraries, etc. If you want a "fair" comparison, I can't think of anything better. So, feel free to render this with your own thing.

[koolkeys]

MIDI files are not going to represent the instruments well enough since each plays completely different. Also, there is a much larger variety of sounds in Pianoteq so how do you decide which sounds to compare?

It may be fun to compare, but not very accurate.

Brent

Nonsense, Pianos only respond to velocity. All you have to do is make certain each VSTI has a flat velocity curve and then run the comparison.

It's not nonsense. I am very confident on this one. Part of playing the piano is how the PLAYER reacts to the piano, and this also includes how he pedals to layer the notes in addition to what his hands are doing. I don't know if you play the piano or not, but it's more than just changing a velocity curve. WAY more.

Brent

[Shy]

By the way, the reason you won't see too many if any renders done with any of the fancy big sample libraries here, is because this piece, as "lifeless" and invariable as the MIDI file is, exposes just how scattered and a mess their sound is. PianoTeq doesn't do well either, it gets strange fast with weird attacks, un-piano-like squishy, non solid sound. I'm not dissing it, it's awesome, but I think TruePianos suffers the least from "realism loss", even if individual notes don't sound as real as in some sample libraries or as "organic" as in PianoTeq.

[electro]

I understand what you're saying. But when you tap a piano key soft, the hammer hits the string soft and when you tap a piano key hard the hammer hits the string hard. It shouldn't be impossible to do a basic MIDI comparison that shows off timbre, and string resonance.

[Shy]

Different virtual pianos, and even different "modules" or "presets" within them, respond very differently to velocity changes. I don't think there's any one highly variable MIDI file that would be "fair" for a comparison. With one it may sound great, with another, totally strange and wrong.

[koolkeys]

I understand what you're saying. But when you tap a piano key soft, the hammer hits the string soft and when you tap a piano key hard the hammer hits the string hard. It shouldn't be impossible to do a basic MIDI comparison that shows off timbre, and string resonance.

Yes, but it's near impossible to really compare two pianos. I mean, how do you even decide how to change each note's velocity? This isn't a simple change to the MIDI file.

The best way is to have an experienced pianist play the same piece on two different instruments. And even then, there are likely to be small factors that are missed.

It's just not a good way to compare pianos. It CAN show the basic sound of a piano, but the sound is only a small part of what makes a piano instrument a good one, IMO.

Brent

[premiumcrap]

Pianoteq plays nicely and as it's a model, it has very true simulation of piano behaviour, like very realistic string resonance. But unfortunately, the basic sound timbre of Pianoteq only remotely resembles a piano.
TruePianos seems to be based on samples and as such it sounds much more closer to how pianos sound, but on the other hand things like string resonance are done poorly in it.
So they are both unperfect, you have to decide what characteristics of pianos are more important to you to choose between them.

i have the same problem with both pianos.

pianoteq sounds much to plastique, sterile, but i would like to buy
the sympathetic engine separately. for using with sample-libraries.

true pianos sounds nice in stereo, but is absolutely not monocompatible.

both are imperfect products.

now i am experimenting with piano-sample libraries and artificial stringresonance
from plugins like "stringtheory" and others like this.
(i'm still researching, what's sounding best)

and i think, i'm able to get much better results, than with this 2 pianos.

www.myspace.com/tombalcony

[K-Slash]

Here is an example of a beta (sound may change/improve) upcoming TruePianos module. No processing, only added reverb. The MIDI file is here, Liszt - Grandes Etudes de Paganini, No. 4.

Hope it's not for V2, because it sounds not better than what's comes with V1.5, so...

But I have faith in 4Front ...

[elxsound]

Pianoteq plays nicely and as it's a model, it has very true simulation of piano behaviour, like very realistic string resonance. But unfortunately, the basic sound timbre of Pianoteq only remotely resembles a piano.
TruePianos seems to be based on samples and as such it sounds much more closer to how pianos sound, but on the other hand things like string resonance are done poorly in it.
So they are both unperfect, you have to decide what characteristics of pianos are more important to you to choose between them.

i have the same problem with both pianos.

pianoteq sounds much to plastique, sterile, but i would like to buy
the sympathetic engine separately. for using with sample-libraries.

true pianos sounds nice in stereo, but is absolutely not monocompatible.

both are imperfect products.

now i am experimenting with piano-sample libraries and artificial stringresonance
from plugins like "stringtheory" and others like this.
(i'm still researching, what's sounding best)

and i think, i'm able to get much better results, than with this 2 pianos.

www.myspace.com/tombalcony

You're going down a steep and slippery slope...

I have TP and my intention was to simply use it as a temporary placement holder for adding sampled pianos later, but I think sound is so important even when using something for a scratch pad, that TP is collecting dust.

I like the idea of the physically modeled stuff, but damn... both products have a much longer way to go.

Not to offend the die hard TP fans, but once 6 months of ownership is up, you can find my copy of TP on the marketplace. I'm sure version 2 will be a great product for what it does, but sampled pianos just sound so much better (IMO).

[Optomadic]

Here is an example of a beta (sound may change/improve) upcoming TruePianos module. No processing, only added reverb. The MIDI file is here, Liszt - Grandes Etudes de Paganini, No. 4.

Thanks for the example but if I was looking for a dynamic sound I would definatly NOT pick TP based on it.
It has no velocity range at all.
Sounds kind of like a robotic piano playing woodpecker ..

BTW whats up PianoTeq not having any automation parameters??

Just checked and TP has the ability to control all parameters (that matter ).

I'm I missing something here?

[Uncle E]

Here is an example of a beta (sound may change/improve) upcoming TruePianos module.

That was horrible.

[Jake Jackson]

Here's a link to the Purgatory Creek demo site's mp3 of a previous version of PianoTeq. It's rendered from a midi file, and without editing the default settings, but to me the sound is convincing and just good. (Most users would have moved the Cut-off slider slightly to the left to remove some of the pure-sounding upper partials on the highest notes.) It doesn't sound like the upright piano recorded for the Cinematique piano (which sounds great--thanks for posting that)because it was modeled from a 9-foot long grand piano:

http://purgatorycreek.com/documents/26_320.html


I do wish there was an upright for PianoTeq, however. Regardless, if the PianoTeq sound isn't right for you, do go to the forum and sign up. The developers listen and make adjustments based on forum discussions. They are very serious about creating good pianos.

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/index.php

You should feel free to post recordings of piano sounds (in the Files area for the forum) that you want PianoTeq to emulate. My impression is that many people would like a modelled upright. The more discussion, the better. (Am I trying to persuade you to help us urge the developers to create an upright model? Well, yes...)