Ask me anything Music Theory and I'll answer

[echomusic]

Hey everybody,

My name is Dexter and I'm glad to be here. I'm a musician, performer (double bass) and published author & composer. The reason I'm here is to find out what questions you all have about music theory. I am creating a second edition of my book and I want it to be focussed more around what people are having issues with in music theory rather than an overview or a 'how to read and write music' type of deal.

I really want this edition to help people so they can move past the 'sticky' parts and move forward.

With that said, I invite all of you to ask me ANY questions you may have about music theory. It doesn't matter what level you are, beginner, professional or anything in between. I'll keep track of who asks and they will receive a free copy when it's done.

I've set this thread to send replies to my email so message me directly or just reply, either is cool with me.

If you have specific theory questions about the Double Bass please mention that it's a Double Bass question before-hand.

Thanks Everybody,
Dexter Nelson
http://mastermusician.echoingwalls.com (under construction)

[Download SOphist]

why the need for music theory?









just jokin'... nice to have a published author on board, welcome!

[echomusic]

lol. Thanks

[TankEyes]

Hi Dexter, welcome to KVR.

I'm a music theory beginner, and an experienced dance music producer. Lately I've been trying to write with less monophonic lead lines and more chord and arpeggio sequences, and melodies based on theory.

I've recently learnt about a few "out of key" chords I can use to spice up my major scale chord sequences. These being bVII, bVI, and bIII. I was wondering if you could explain to me why these sound "right", and do you know of any other chords that I can add to my major scale toolbox?

Also, I like to create moody, dark, serious and atmospheric tunes sometimes (example here). Do you have any general tips about chord shapes, root movements, or voicings to impart that unsettling vibe?

Thanks.

[MOK19]

I have one. I've been reading a book on theory - I'm basically a beginner to theory as well - and when I finished up the chapter on the 7 diatonic modes, the book touched on the 'harmonic form of the chromatic scale.' After re-reading the section multiple times, I do not understand what the author is implying. Thus, I'm sure I'm missing the full implication and utility of this scale. I'll quote a section:

"The importance of this scale is that it uses all 12 keys on the keyboard, but referenced against a single tonic. Therefore, each note represents a particular relationship to that tonic. From this relationship, the note itself acquires it's meaning and significance in the scale. [...] Viewed in this context, the harmonic form of the chromatic scale is simply a complete summary of modal interval relationships to a fixed tonic note."

Italics are mine. That sentence particularly baffles me, and it seems to be the most significant data point. This book is rife with badly constructed sentences and paragraphs, but this one finally pulled me to a halt. Perhaps you can help me?

Much appreciated....

[echomusic]

Hi Dexter, welcome to KVR.

I'm a music theory beginner, and an experienced dance music producer. Lately I've been trying to write with less monophonic lead lines and more chord and arpeggio sequences, and melodies based on theory.

I've recently learnt about a few "out of key" chords I can use to spice up my major scale chord sequences. These being bVII, bVI, and bIII. I was wondering if you could explain to me why these sound "right", and do you know of any other chords that I can add to my major scale toolbox?

Also, I like to create moody, dark, serious and atmospheric tunes sometimes. Do you have any general tips about chord shapes, root movements, or voicings to impart that unsettling vibe?

Thanks.

By out of key I take it that you mean accidentals? Slow me down if I get all professor like on you, but baring the in depth explanations, an accidental is a shift in a musical tone (including chords). Most often it's a half-step (sharp to natural, natural to flat) up or down.

I take it you play guitar or are learning guitar from the progressions you named? I'm going to circle back to progression in a moment to show you an easy way to understand progression and chords at the same time.

By your notations you're learning minor progression, which if you want the darker, more ominous sounds is a very good place to start. When I teach people music theory, as a general guideline I teach all of my students 9 major scales, 6 minor scales, and 2 chromatic scales.

The reason is because to fully understand progression, you have to know them to know their progressions. For example the progression in a G Major scale is a 7th (or F#). The A Major progression is 3rd, 6th, 7th (C#, F#, G#).

Once you have those down everything else falls into place including arpeggios and chords. Here's something to keep in mind. An arpeggio is a chord, it's just played in progression rather than all at the same time.

A good example is the C Major scale. It has no sharps or flats so the arpeggio is C-E-G (also a C Major chord in thirds). You can play just two notes, C-E or C-G and that would be a chord as well. You can play it in other progressions as well, namely 5th and 7th.

Right there you have your chords down, arpeggios down, and your progressions all in one shot. Once you know the scale, you know everything else by default, including what sounds "right" without departing from the key signature.

Circling back here, accidentals are generally half-step progressions from the notes. An example would be the key of G Major (noted by the F# or F sharp), and throwing in a C# (C sharp) during a shift in tempo, transition, etc.

My Advice would be to memorize the scales. When you do, everything else falls in line.

Here's a quick guideline to memorize, just remember the scale, chord, and arpeggio will be played at the root note.

=================
9 Major Scales:
=================
C Major: (no flats, no sharps)
G Major: F#
D Major: C# F#
A Major: C# F# G#
E Major: C# D# F# G#
F Major: Bb (using lower case b as flat)
Bb Major: Bb Eb
Eb Major: Ab Bb Eb
Ab Major: Ab Bb Db Eb

Minor scales get a bit tricky so I won't go into those. They confuse people quickly. As for creating darker tones, it's not so much the key that it's in but the tempo and style that will make the difference there. Try playing music slower with a pulsing style (accents over the first beat for example).

[echomusic]

I have one. I've been reading a book on theory - I'm basically a beginner to theory as well - and when I finished up the chapter on the 7 diatonic modes, the book touched on the 'harmonic form of the chromatic scale.' After re-reading the section multiple times, I do not understand what the author is implying. Thus, I'm sure I'm missing the full implication and utility of this scale. I'll quote a section:

"The importance of this scale is that it uses all 12 keys on the keyboard, but referenced against a single tonic. Therefore, each note represents a particular relationship to that tonic. From this relationship, the note itself acquires it's meaning and significance in the scale. [...] Viewed in this context, the harmonic form of the chromatic scale is simply a complete summary of modal interval relationships to a fixed tonic note."

Italics are mine. That sentence particularly baffles me, and it seems to be the most significant data point. This book is rife with badly constructed sentences and paragraphs, but this one finally pulled me to a halt. Perhaps you can help me?

Much appreciated....

That would baffle me as well. I hope the author took the time to define and explain the terms he/she used. I'll define them here anyway but in a 'for dummies' method which is often times the easiest way.

The author is talking about intervals (how you define chords, etc.). The easiest way to understand it is to avoid all of that the author is discussing.

Interval: The difference, usually expressed in the number of steps, between two pitches.

In a scale, the notes, (pitches), are uniform and ascend or descend. For example, if you were playing the C major scale, the notes would be C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C ascending or C-B-A-G-G-E-D-C descending.

The interval would be the number of steps between each pitch.

In the c major scale the intervals from C to D is a whole step, C to E is 2 whole steps, etc.

Diatonic means nothing but the first seven notes, (5 tones and 2 semitones), of a major or minor scale WITHOUT any chromatic alterations, (use of accidentals).

Tonic is the keynote or the first note of a scale (the root note).

The Dominant is the 5th note of a scale.

That's all the author is talking about. The progression between the notes of different types of scales.

Chromatic is a constant half-step up. In the C Major scale you have 13 notes (not 12. the author stopped counting that the 12th note and not the final note).

C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G#, A, A#, B, C. The Tonic is C, The Dominant is E, and the diatonic refers to the first 7 notes. Coming down the chromatic scale you have, C, B, Bb, A, Ab, G, Gb, F, E, Eb, D, Db, C - again all half-step progressions.

As to name the notes sharps or flats going up or down, remember the catch phrase "Sharpen Up, Flatten Down" - anything else beyond knowing the terminology will confuse you.

[unpeople]

I've recently learnt about a few "out of key" chords I can use to spice up my major scale chord sequences. These being ♭VII, ♭VI, and ♭III. I was wondering if you could explain to me why these sound "right", and do you know of any other chords that I can add to my major scale toolbox?

Sorry to butt in... just thought I'd throw in my 2¢:

Those chords work when played over the tonic because they outline various chord extensions to the tonic triad. The notes of the ♭VII triad, for example, are also the 7th, 9th, and 11th of the tonic, outlining a 7 9 sus chord. In the case of the ♭III triad played over the tonic triad, you'd form a 7 #9 chord; and the ♭VI triad over the tonic triad would form a #9 ♭13.

These chords are prevalent in jazz, and are derived from the Altered Scale (sometimes called Super Locrian Mode), which contains the 7th, ♭9th, #9th, #11th, and ♭13 chord tones. If you like those sorts of sounds, you might also try using a II major, which would generate a 9 #11 13 chord, or the II augmented, which would give you a 7 9 #11; and playing a ♭III as a minor instead of major will create a 7 #9 #11, which is a cool-sounding transitional chord.

[1-2-Many]

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a song?

[echomusic]

Chords are defined by their tonic and the key note and the progressions don't apply to every instrument which is why I didn't walk all the way up the progression ladder. For example on the double bass, while you can play double stops at 2 octaves, chords ore impossible to play, so I tend to lean towards theory that everyone can apply regardless of instruments.

If the person were playing piano, harp, guitar or any other instrument that allowed you to reach more than 2 octaves' span than definitely teach that method, but only after the person has this part down.

Plus once you know the scales you can step up octaves like a breeze. I didn't go into the minors because minors are majors with the half-step change on ascending.

Melodic Minors:
a minor (C Major key with a tonic of a)
e minor (G Major key with a tonic of e)
b minor (D Major key with a tonic of b natural)
d minor (F Major key with a tonic of d)
g minor (Bb Major key with a tonic of g)
c minor (Eb Major key with a tonic of c)

Playing the intervals is as simple as crossing octaves. If you learn theory this way you can play any instrument, which is why I teach it this way. It's also easier to understand. Also, when performing practicality of using the chord notation is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine in my opinion and confuses the crap out of people.

I play clubs all the time with different groups, (blues, jazz, swing, rock, country, you name it) and when people ask you name the key signature and the interval. 1-3-7 in B flat (Bb D A) and so on you'll hear 99% of the time and you can pick up octave shifts after the first few measures. It's really that easy.

[MOK19]

Thank you for your effort, Echomusic. I appreciate it!

However, I probably misrepresented my level of experience. I've been fluent with basic music theory of classical western tonal music for a while. I understand intervals and major/minor scales fairly well, as well as the chromatic scale. As a handy(but tedious) re-hash for me, these things were also covered much earlier in this book I've been reading.

What I'm stuck on is pertaining to, specifically, the 7 modes(Lydian, Phrygian, etc). This section I've read relates to the "harmonic form of the chromatic scale" as it relates to those 7 modes. This scale appears to be different from the chromatic scale I'm familiar with, and the author seems to be indicating that it's utility is also different.

In the section I typed in with my last post, I omitted some examples from the exerpt, but perhaps I should've kept them for topical context:

"The note Db, for example, is significant as the flat second that may be found in the Phrygian mode. It is this note, you will recall, that gives the Phrygian mode its unique character. The note F# is significant as the augmented fourth used in the Lydian mode. Again, it is this note that gives the Lydian mode it's unique character."

[camsr]

How complex to chordal progressions get, rhythmically? Example, the chord changes every bar, or by 3 beats then 1 beat?

[echomusic]

Thank you for your effort, Echomusic. I appreciate it!

However, I probably misrepresented my level of experience. I've been fluent with basic music theory of classical western tonal music for a while. I understand intervals and major/minor scales fairly well, as well as the chromatic scale. As a handy(but tedious) re-hash for me, these things were also covered much earlier in this book I've been reading.

What I'm stuck on is pertaining to, specifically, the 7 modes(Lydian, Phrygian, etc). This section I've read relates to the "harmonic form of the chromatic scale" as it relates to those 7 modes. This scale appears to be different from the chromatic scale I'm familiar with, and the author seems to be indicating that it's utility is also different.

In the section I typed in with my last post, I omitted some examples from the exerpt, but perhaps I should've kept them for topical context:

"The note Db, for example, is significant as the flat second that may be found in the Phrygian mode. It is this note, you will recall, that gives the Phrygian mode its unique character. The note F# is significant as the augmented fourth used in the Lydian mode. Again, it is this note that gives the Lydian mode it's unique character."

OK. So before I get into it, at what point did the author leave off before you were stuck? Modes are very simple and is all about intervals. It's as easy as memorizing them. The way that's written is totally overcomplicated.

Listed alphabetically

1. Aeolian (deep sadness) - whole,half,whole,whole,half,whole,whole
2. Dorian (melancholy, unresolved) - whole,half,whole,whole,whole,half,whole
3. Ionian (widely popular is like a scale progression) - whole,whole,half,whole,whole,whole,half
4. Locrian (malcontent, a nightmare to compose too) - half,whole,whole,half,whole,whole,whole
5. Lydian (unexpected intervals as you can see but with an Ionian feel to it) - whole,whole,whole,half,whole,whole,half
6. Phrygian (stuff of a composers' dream. It's like a minor scale but doesn't have that sad feel. You'll find this in contemporary feel-good jazz, big band, etc) - half,whole,whole,whole,half,whole,whole
7. Mixolydian (think Ionian with minor scale intervals) - whole,whole,half,whole,whole,half,whole

They are all unique because of their intervals. Once you know them then stressing one over the other is a matter of preference.

[echomusic]

How complex to chordal progressions get, rhythmically? Example, the chord changes every bar, or by 3 beats then 1 beat?

As simple or as complicated as you want it to be. The most complicated I've seen though are 6 progressions and it was both at the opening and ending of the piece.

[MOK19]

OK. So before I get into it, at what point did the author leave off before you were stuck?
...
They are all unique because of their intervals. Once you know them then stressing one over the other is a matter of preference.

Prior to mentioning this harmonic chromatic scale, this book completely and comprehensively detailed the modes, their intervals, their tendencies, etc(as far as I can tell). I've also spent a day experimenting with each of these modes, and practicing playing their scales on a few different tonics.

This harmonic chromatic scale is the very last subject touched on in this section of the book before the author advances to the next, unrelated section.