Ask me anything Music Theory and I'll answer

[ckatrun411]

Not to mention the fact that, "music theory is such a huge subject," anybody claiming to be a master, is also a fool.

[cryophonik]

Thread would have been a lot nicer if: subject = I'm writing a music theory book. content = what are some ideas and questions I should cover?

That, or "Ask me anything about theory and I'll selectively substitute centuries of music theory convention with notation that I personally feel is more practical, then make unsubstantiated claims, such as 99.9% of all correctly notated music has been revised for practicality, as I see it."

Why is it so complicated ?

It's not complicated.

At last, we can agree on something. It's not complicated, well no more than the rules of English grammar. I can verbalize the words "I can't hear the bass in that song", but if I write the same phrase as "I can't here the base in that song", it would be wrong and I would be justifiably corrected for doing so, because it wouldn't make grammatical sense, even though you knew what I meant and would hear the phrase correctly if I spoke it aloud. So, should we just throw out homonyms for the sake of practicality? Of course not. It's no different in music theory - just because you may hear the notes the same does not justify notating it incorrectly. That just adds to confusion, when one of the primary purposes of music theory is to minimize the confusion by providing a standard convention for explaining and understanding music. Music theory is difficult for many people to grasp as it is, and when one person starts a thread such as this and spreads this much misinformation regarding the standard use of flats and sharps in music, that just adds to the confusion. At least 4 knowledgeable people with some serious music theory knowledge have corrected him and provided actual examples of how and why he is wrong, yet he still contends that he is correct with no offer of evidence - that should tell you something.

[jonnyG]

At times like these I'm always minded of this...



Yep, someone was wrong (even with my limited knowledge of notation I knew what you guys were getting at) and now they've been banished from KVR's inner circle because no-one is ever wrong here.

It's a funny old place sometimes.

[memyselfandus]

At times like these I'm always minded of this...



Yep, someone was wrong (even with my limited knowledge of notation I knew what you guys were getting at) and now they've been banished from KVR's inner circle because no-one is ever wrong here.

It's a funny old place sometimes.

I have been there

[memyselfandus]

Hmm...explain the origins and significance of the differences between the french, german, italian, and swiss augmented 6th chords. How are they constructed? How do they each resolve? How does the voice leading work for each assuming you are using the approach of the common practice period? How can they be used as a pivot chord for modulation and within what key relationships can modulation occur?

[BERFAB]

Well there's a left turn I didn't expect.

Anyone else care to join me in here before the lock?

[dburns]

Oh lord. Where did this thread go wrong?

[bernhardtjeff]

Thread would have been a lot nicer if: subject = I'm writing a music theory book. content = what are some ideas and questions I should cover?

That, or "Ask me anything about theory and I'll selectively substitute centuries of music theory convention with notation that I personally feel is more practical, then make unsubstantiated claims, such as 99.9% of all correctly notated music has been revised for practicality, as I see it."

Why is it so complicated ?

It's not complicated.

At last, we can agree on something. It's not complicated, well no more than the rules of English grammar. I can verbalize the words "I can't hear the bass in that song", but if I write the same phrase as "I can't here the base in that song", it would be wrong and I would be justifiably corrected for doing so, because it wouldn't make grammatical sense, even though you knew what I meant and would hear the phrase correctly if I spoke it aloud. So, should we just throw out homonyms for the sake of practicality? Of course not. It's no different in music theory - just because you may hear the notes the same does not justify notating it incorrectly. That just adds to confusion, when one of the primary purposes of music theory is to minimize the confusion by providing a standard convention for explaining and understanding music. Music theory is difficult for many people to grasp as it is, and when one person starts a thread such as this and spreads this much misinformation regarding the standard use of flats and sharps in music, that just adds to the confusion. At least 4 knowledgeable people with some serious music theory knowledge have corrected him and provided actual examples of how and why he is wrong, yet he still contends that he is correct with no offer of evidence - that should tell you something.

"I can't hear the base on that song" makes perfect grammatical sense. I suppose you meant to say it doesn't make semantic sense.

Further--and you might not believe me on this one--, I once helped a musician friend who was also an avid baseball lover make a song using some found sounds at our college's baseball practice field. For a bass-drum-like sound, we used the sound of striking first base with a large wooden mallet. When we were mixing the song at my place, sentences like "The base isn't loud enough" frequently came up.

So not only does "I can't hear the base on that song" make grammatical since, it also makes semantic sense in some cases.

Also, "base" and "bass" are homophones, not homonyms

[bernhardtjeff]

Hey everybody,

My name is Dexter and I'm glad to be here. I'm a musician, performer (double bass) and published author & composer. The reason I'm here is to find out what questions you all have about music theory. I am creating a second edition of my book and I want it to be focussed more around what people are having issues with in music theory rather than an overview or a 'how to read and write music' type of deal.

I really want this edition to help people so they can move past the 'sticky' parts and move forward.

With that said, I invite all of you to ask me ANY questions you may have about music theory. It doesn't matter what level you are, beginner, professional or anything in between. I'll keep track of who asks and they will receive a free copy when it's done.

I've set this thread to send replies to my email so message me directly or just reply, either is cool with me.

If you have specific theory questions about the Double Bass please mention that it's a Double Bass question before-hand.

Thanks Everybody,
Dexter Nelson
http://mastermusician.echoingwalls.com (under construction)

1) Why do discussions about music theory online often turn into emotional, combative riots?

[MOK19]

Of the reasons cited for being uncivil, I don't see a valid one yet.

Echomusic: Regardless of the details, I appreciate that you went through a lot of effort to helping people out. I hope you don't let this thread turn you completely sour to KVR.

[bernhardtjeff]

Of the reasons cited for being uncivil, I don't see a valid one yet.

Echomusic: Regardless of the details, I appreciate that you went through a lot of effort to helping people out. I hope you don't let this thread turn you completely sour to KVR.

Right, let it turn you just sour enough to hate KVR but not enough to stop coming

[cryophonik]

"I can't hear the base on that song" makes perfect grammatical sense. I suppose you meant to say it doesn't make semantic sense.

So not only does "I can't hear the base on that song" make grammatical since, it also makes semantic sense in some cases.

Also, "base" and "bass" are homophones, not homonyms

Good points. And, yes, you are correct - it's homophones, not homonyms.

[jonnyG]

Of the reasons cited for being uncivil, I don't see a valid one yet.

Echomusic: Regardless of the details, I appreciate that you went through a lot of effort to helping people out. I hope you don't let this thread turn you completely sour to KVR.

Right, let it turn you just sour enough to hate KVR but not enough to stop coming

Sounds like a fair compromise.

[Gamma-UT]

Now I have been studying music for much longer than Dexter has, and I am far more well endowed musically than he is. If anyone should be answering your questions about music theory and sending you free copies of his book, it should be me. But that's not why I have come to speak on this forum. I have silently watched KVR for a long time, enjoying it's many features, but what troubles me about KVRAudio is the lack of Christ's love. I think it's time that I take some positive action to remedy this situation. Dexter is obviously not going to teach you about how CHRIST IS THE REASON MUSIC THEORY WORKS. Either he doesn't know or he doesn't care. But any way you cut it, your souls are in trouble. But don't worry. I have come in this grave hour to deliver a message of hope and redemption. The reason there are twelve different tones is because there were 12 tribes of Israel and 12 Apostles. Each tone of the chromatic scale relates to it's tonic in the same way the 12 tribes of Israel and the 12 Apostles relate to Christ. So if we look with pure eyes, which Dexter's eyes are certainly not pure, but ungodly. If we look with pure eyes we find that the answers to our questions don't lie with Dexter, but inside of the bible, as God intended.

You took a wrong turn at the thread junction. I think it's this one you want: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3863694

Judas is F#, right?

[Gamma-UT]

Of the reasons cited for being uncivil, I don't see a valid one yet.

Echomusic: Regardless of the details, I appreciate that you went through a lot of effort to helping people out. I hope you don't let this thread turn you completely sour to KVR.

Right, let it turn you just sour enough to hate KVR but not enough to stop coming

"When I first came to town
All the people gathered round
They bought me drinks
Lord, how quickly they changed their tune

...

And god-damn this town
For I am leaving now
But one day I will return
And the people of this town will surely see
Just how quickly the tables turn"
Nick Cave - When I First Came to Town

FWIW, I don't think anyone was being uncivil. But if someone claims to be an expert, published author and links to a 'seven secrets to musical success' CD, I think they're are probably going to get a rougher ride if their answers are a bit unconventional to say the least compared with someone who turns up in the forum not claiming to be an expert (and some of those get a roasting from time to time, it seems).