PianoTeq3.5.1 vs TruePianos 1.5.0. Latest versions showdown!

[Optomadic]

Kinda cheap of me but I got over to me mates place that owns full version of TruePianos and recorded a bit with it.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3863142

Just to do it some justice from the earlier recording ..

I'm listening to the same parts in from the recording and demo of PT and gotta say, I'm liking TP ALOT right now!

I obviously have to do much more testing though..

more to come...

[Shy]

That was horrible.

Go ahead, post a better example with that midi file.

[asseca]

BTW whats up PianoTeq not having any automation parameters??

Just checked and TP has the ability to control all parameters (that matter ).

I'm I missing something here?

Pianoteq v3.51 has 138 automation parameters, what host are you using ??

[Uncle E]

Go ahead, post a better example with that midi file.

Sorry, I didn't mean that as an insult to you or the instrument, it's just a really awful midi file.

[Optomadic]

BTW whats up PianoTeq not having any automation parameters??

Just checked and TP has the ability to control all parameters (that matter ).

I'm I missing something here?

Pianoteq v3.51 has 138 automation parameters, what host are you using ??

Ahh yes I see now.. Was kinda tired and being lazy.

Thnx for keeping me on my toes

[Jake Jackson]

By the way, I understand why people like TruePianos--it has that saturated, close-up, dark sound. (It's demo's on the Purgatory Creek site show it well--but I do get tired of that midi file....) I think PT and TruePianos started from different notions of the sound that was wanted. The PT developers were initially trying to create a more distant, classical perspective, while the TP developers wanted a closer and darker sound, so by default any midi file playing them is going to make them seem extremely different. I'll have a go at seeing if I can get that darker sound in PT.

[Optomadic]

**wrong thread

[EvilDragon]

Here's my own shootout on the two (testing handling polyphony and sympathetic resonance mainly, not so much dynamics in this example). I played both pianos at the same time and this is what I got. I'm using FLAC so it's lossless compression and you can't bail out on MP3 quality

TruePianos 1.5: used Sapphire Default preset (the first one when VST opens)
PianoTeq 3.5 Pro: used C3 Solo Recording preset (the first one when VST opens)

Notice how unnatural and timbre-shifted some bass notes sound on TruePianos - it's obviously the fault of core samples, and this is one obvious drawback of sampling. Notice how static the resonance in the end sounds. Notice how the fist-crushing clusters sound like a group of separate notes. THIS IS NOT HOW PIANOS WORK. The real piano rumbles like hell in these situations. PianoTeq delivers all of the above, which TruePianos fail to do.

Winner is pretty much obvious.


Nota bene - TruePianos GET WORSE if I load my test Liszt - Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 MIDI file, NO MATTER which module I load up! The file sounds absolutely perfect on Pianoteq 3.5 Pro.

Do you want to hear that embarrasment?

[Optomadic]

I love it when the cat 'jumps in' !

PianoTeq sounds wider, fuller and a tad more dynamic but still way more fake!

TruePianos sounds better to me

[djones]

Pianoteq also sounds too springy.
The body of the sound should be a bit harder and woody sounding.

[Venomeza]

used Sapphire Default preset (the first one when VST opens)

If you're going to make further comparisons make sure you DON'T use the Sapphire or Emerald models, as they sound funny and un-piano like. Really, that has proven to be the general consensus in past threads.

I really like the Diamond module, the only thing it lacks is a little punch at lower registries. The Amber module is fine too.

[rasmusklump]

Winner is pretty much obvious.

yep...TruePianos is the clear winner here. Best example why I wipe every PT Demo off of the HD soon after installation.

By the way: the saphire model is not the default one...

[Megakazbek]

Notice how unnatural and timbre-shifted some bass notes sound on TruePianos - it's obviously the fault of core samples, and this is one obvious drawback of sampling. Notice how static the resonance in the end sounds. Notice how the fist-crushing clusters sound like a group of separate notes. THIS IS NOT HOW PIANOS WORK. The real piano rumbles like hell in these situations. PianoTeq delivers all of the above, which TruePianos fail to do.

Pianoteq reproduces pretty accurately how pianos work, but its timbre is unnatural and synthetic (even if it behaves propely).
If you pay big attention to how piano sound behaves, then Pianoteq might be better for you. But for me, for example, having natural timbre is more important than having natural behaviour. Especially that these effects are mostly subtle and are prominent only in very few specific situations.
As far as timbre is concerned, TruePianos definitely win.

[EvilDragon]

As far as I saw in all the modules for TruePianos, their timbre is very weird when played quiet. That's just not how the real piano behaves. So, Pianoteq still wins. IMHO.

I have a real piano at home, I can compare it to Pianoteq anytime. It's The Right Thing. Truepianos is a letdown in all the occasions that I numbered (clusters don't really rumble, which is a big drawback of sample playback - the notes simply DO NOT interact). I don't like the untweakability of it, especially regarding velocity curves. This is done much better in Pianoteq.

yep...TruePianos is the clear winner here. Best example why I wipe every PT Demo off of the HD soon after installation.

You just CAN'T SAY that TP sounds better here... it really sounds like a joke. I agree that Diamond and Amber modules do sound somewhat better, but they are overall a bit muddy sounding when played forte, it's like there's some lowpass filtering going on, it's strange.

By the way: the saphire model is not the default one...

It was the first preset that opened when VST opened, so I just used whatever opened first. I'll use a different approach next time, then.

The body of the sound should be a bit harder and woody sounding.

There's LOTS of wood in Pianoteq sound. As I said, I used only the first preset, which is not the best sounding one, IMO. You can also tweak the hell out of it to get even more wood out of the sound. You can't object on that one.

I really, REALLY don't know what the hell are you talking about with Pianoteq timbre being synthetic and unnatural. We have a beta-tester in our beta-testing team called Piet De Ridder, he was always the most critical of the lot regarding sound, and even he had very little to say (if anything) to the sound of PTQ 3.5 Pro (and he's a jazz cat if I remember correctly, so he knows HIS shit). It's just going places, way better than the rest. Sustain pedal sounds and behaves much better with Pianoteq. Sapphire Pedal module is a JOKE. And in other modules the pedalling is not as pronounced as I wish it to be. Pianoteq has this hands down.

So, if you'd be kind to explain to me what do you find so synthetic there. I'm 17 years with pianos, I know how they work and sound, and Pianoteq is THE shit. (Granted, I presume you're even longer with pianos, but still, I can't find one shred of synthetic in Pianoteq, not anymore. In v2 maybe, in v3 definitely not.) I'm not deaf either, I'm not very far from perfect pitch... Although that doesn't matter here. The bottom line is - I have no hearing deficiency of any kind!) Truepianos needs lots more work, especially regarding lower velocities, overall resonances, and timbral consistency throughout the keyboard range, which was showcased in my above example where few bass notes sounded totally different than the rest.

Especially tweakability is very much important to me. Truepianos has none. For example, each and every TP module I find slightly muddy, even at higher velocities. That's just unforgivable. EQing is not gonna solve the problem.

Pianoteq Pro, on the other hand, is tweaker's heaven. So I suggest everyone should try to make their own piano sound with Pianoteq Pro, to see what they come up with. I guarantee you can make much better piano sound than any other piano out there currently. And it will ONLY GET BETTER!

[Megakazbek]

I have a real piano at home, I can compare it to Pianoteq anytime. It's The Right Thing. Truepianos is a letdown in all the occasions that I numbered (clusters don't really rumble, which is a big drawback of sample playback - the notes simply DO NOT interact).

Sustain pedal sounds and behaves much better with Pianoteq.

Again, you talk about note interactions, resonances, etc. Yes, it is modeled extremely good in Pianoteq, but, well, for me these things are not so important. To me, first thing that matters is basic tone, the sound you get from just a single note without any resonances and interactions, and it's this basic timbre that defines piano for me, not the interactions stuff. You seem to care more about the process of interactions themselves instead of actual tones that interact. When I listen to Pianoteq, it always appears to me like the sound it produces it comes not from a hammer hitting a string, but from some very sophisticated preset on some extremely sophisticated FM synth played from inside a bucket. With that kind of basic tone, I don't care whether its resonances are proper or not, or whether pedal works like the right thing; I will prefer a piano without any kind of resonance modeling at all, but which has single notes sound real.
Of course, you or Piet De Ridder might not interpret Pianoteq sound as synthetic, so you are free to disagree with me, but your opinion obviously won't change anything about how my ears hear.