KVR Audio

mEnZI1 · Post by **mEnZI1** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:49 am

I would like to create a sample library, if I sampling a Virtual Instruments(maybe BFD?), then do some processing like EQ or Reverb,
Will infringement?

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:06 am

Yes, that is absolutely infringement. Every samples license I have ever read prevents you from using their samples as a basis for another library or ANY distribution of any kind.

Of course, you can typically sample them for your own use inside your own projects, with any modifications you like. But that's it.

Brent

rlahalla · Post by **rlahalla** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:12 am

mEnZI1 wrote:Will infringement?

Yes, it will.

breakmixer · Post by **breakmixer** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:15 pm

mEnZI1 wrote:I would like to create a sample library, if I sampling a Virtual Instruments(maybe BFD?), then do some processing like EQ or Reverb,
Will infringement?

You can't sample any 'Sampled' instruments or Synth 'Presets', these are all copy right, you can however design your own unique synths sounds and sell them, but I doubt many people would be interested in buying samples of soft synths, I do know of a product that does this 'Titan' and another by a smaller developer who uses his own designed soft synth(It may be a secret so I'm not saying anymore

)....

You can't even create a drum loop(Break) from BFD and sell that, it's still infringement because it uses samples that are not allowed to be redistributed as samples,

You can only use BFD for musical compositions, not sample libraries & that goes for any other sampled instruments and factory/third party synth presets!

This extends to hardware, as in the case of drum machines like Roland, presets don't exist as such I wouldn't imagine, hence you can sample them but not use any of the Roland Trade marks to sell or distribute them...

jcrisman · Post by **jcrisman** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:44 pm

mEnZI1 wrote:I would like to create a sample library, if I sampling a Virtual Instruments(maybe BFD?), then do some processing like EQ or Reverb,
Will infringement?

It is unless the legal owner of the sounds grants permission to do otherwise.

While there may be circumstances that constitute "fair use," it's best to err in the way of caution if uncertain about the legality--not only for legal reasons, but also for good relations with those who originally made the sounds.

mEnZI1 · Post by **mEnZI1** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:54 pm

Thanks all of you~!
and...I saw some sample lib may have samples named "808","909"
dont they sampled form a Roland tr 808 or 909?

LXNDR1 · Post by **LXNDR1** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:57 pm

if this is an infringement, can somebody please explain how it differs from buying an instrument, sampling it and then selling the samples, which is perfectly legal?

or is it infringement just on the strength of the sample library manufacturer license which terms are basically voluntarily forced on you without having to necessarily be rooted in principles of law and common sense?

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:01 pm

LXNDR1 wrote:if this is an infringement, can somebody please explain how it differs from buying an instrument, sampling it and then selling the samples, which is perfectly legal?

*picardfacepalmpic*

Consider asking an actual lawyer. [edit] Assuming you want a real answer, that is. If you prefer lots of opinions, this is the place to ask. Ohhh yeah.

LXNDR1 · Post by **LXNDR1** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:25 pm

Meffy wrote:
LXNDR1 wrote:if this is an infringement, can somebody please explain how it differs from buying an instrument, sampling it and then selling the samples, which is perfectly legal?
*picardfacepalmpic*

Consider asking an actual lawyer. [edit] Assuming you want a real answer, that is. If you prefer lots of opinions, this is the place to ask. Ohhh yeah.

no, everybody says this IS an infringement so I assume they also understand why and the legal basis for that, hence the question

sonicpowa · Post by **sonicpowa** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:40 pm

All samples has copyright, but I'm wondering how is it legal to sample 909 for instance (it is sample based, isn't it)?

Shy · Post by **Shy** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:17 pm

No, TR-808 and TR-909 are analog synthesizers. As for why it's OK to sample those and acoustic instruments etc: because you don't redistribute a recorded work illegally, you record an instrument yourself. If you record a Yamaha GC2 grand piano and call your sample based product "Virtual Yamaha GC2", that's also illegal. Consult a lawyer or read up a lot before you do anything, don't expect to find all the info in this thread.

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:21 pm

LXNDR1 wrote:no, everybody says this IS an infringement so I assume they also understand why and the legal basis for that, hence the question

Consider asking an actual lawyer. Assuming you want a real answer.

hollowsun · Post by **hollowsun** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:25 pm

sonicpowa wrote:All samples has copyright, but I'm wondering how is it legal to sample 909 for instance (it is sample based, isn't it)?

Technically, you can sample the 909 kick and snare because those sounds are analogue and generated electronically and there is no copyright on that. However, you can't (technically) sample the toms, hats. cymbals, etc., which are copyrighted samples.

Technically!

But you can sample an entire 808 because all the sounds are analogue and generated electronically. But you can't sample a Boss DR670. Similarly, you can sample a Simmons SDS5 but not the new Alesis DM10... the Simmons is analogue; the DM10 uses samples.

Likewise, you can sample an analogue SH101 or Jupiter 8 to hell and back and you can give 'em away, sell 'em, whatever (*), but you can't sample a Fantom because Roland owns copyright on the samples used in the sounds on that synth. Likewise Yammi Motif, Korg Triton, whatever, and their sample based instruments ... but you could sample a CS80 and/or MS20.

The notion that you can make your own sounds up on a sample based synth such as Fantom, Motif, Triton, whatever and sample those is a myth - if the sounds use other peoples' samples, whatever you do with the envs and filters and LFOs, etc., technically you can't sample them ... because the samples used as the basis of those sounds (whatever you do with them) are copyrighted.

All the above applies if you are going to re-distribute them in some way - sell 'em or give 'em away - but if you own the gear, you can do what you want for your own private use. And no - 'technically' you cannot sample your sample based synth prior to selling it ... that's like making a copy of, say, Garritan and then selling the original copy on.

(*) While you can sample an SH101 or Jupiter 8 and sell those/give 'em away, you should avoid using registered Roland trademarks, brand names, logos, whatever, because those too are copyrighted and could be viewed by Roland's legal eagles as 'exploiting their trademarks for gain' (even if you are giving them away)

penguinfromdeep · Post by **penguinfromdeep** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:46 pm

IN the end I don't think people are going to sue you in any case. It's just too much hassle and costs money. Look at Hugo / Goldbaby who made the excellent tape 909 / other libraries that were sampled from _sample based_ drum machines. Nobody made a big fuss about it, it's cool though technically it's against the law. But who cares? I don't, and I doubt anybody is going to sue him. It's just good, creative sampling. Vengeance does it too quite blatantly but I haven't seen any law suits against them either

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:04 pm

penguinfromdeep wrote:IN the end I don't think people are going to sue you in any case.

Not for sampling old Roland gear, maybe... or maybe not; I wouldn't want to bet on it no matter what's gone on in the past. But here's the first post in the thread:

mEnZI1 wrote:I would like to create a sample library, if I sampling a Virtual Instruments(maybe BFD?)

I doubt that would be tolerated for a moment.

Is that infringement?