SKINMAN, the new strike by g200kg (early early alpha)

[DaveHoskins]

im talking about skinman, loading from scratch

eh? ive not heed that. is that so long?

okay, i will check.

i have mentioned it a few times in the last few pages, i just noticed that its not instant anymore (like it used to be) seems to take sometimes up to 30-40 seconds to load up skinman

It loads instantly for me.
I'm running WinXP & Intel Q9550 processor.
The only differences I can think are the runtime libraries and the graphics card drivers, but I'm no Pc expert.

[WOK]

im talking about skinman, loading from scratch

sure, big projects take time, i'd expect that, but the main app takes an age still

Loading of the app takes more time, depending on the number of bitmaps in the textures folder. If you have some big in it, it also eats up much RAM. Seems it loads ALL textures into RAM, even with an empty project (and it likes to crash more when big textures are used). That should be changed (knobman does not do it).

[brok landers]

that could indeed be it, i'm having a lot of textures in the texture folder also ... there should be a way around that imo ...

[brok landers]

g200kg,

sorry to bother again, but the interpretation of fonts, especially pixel fonts/bmp fonts, that are really small and don't use antialiasing, is not right.
see here, in the screenshot, i've used a font called "XG Pixo" here, but there's several others on those the interpretation of skinman isn't correct:


am i doing something fundamentally wrong???

also, on some others that seem to work, i still have to fiddle around with the fontspacing in skinman to have them artefact-free ...
what am i not seeing?? again, sorry for bothering, i hate to be a pita ...

[mystran]

am i doing something fundamentally wrong???

It could be that the font size you are setting in the FontViewer thingie, is relative to system DPI setting (usually 96 on Windows). I think it was established earlier that Skinman uses point=pixel which would correspond to 72 DPI, so maybe you'll get better result if you scale the font-size by 72/96. That'd make your 10 point font into 7,5 point font to maintain the same pixel size...

[osiris]

Is there any way to lock individual things in Skinman? I know there is on the tree view, but I can't seem to get the tree view to pop up anymore.

[g200kg]

Yes, SkinMan's font size unit is 'pixel' = point@72DPI

but the FontViewOK's font size unit seems a little strange value.
in general 96DPI display, 'point' to 'pixel' conversion should be 96/72 (not 72/96 ).
however, the 7.5pixel seems same size to FontViewer's Size=10 Why?

in addition, the 'XG pixo' font seems has some problem.
some character cant rendered normally (not only SkinMan but also InkScape)


(Nonetheless, the SkinMan's pixel accuracy for fonts has room for improvement)

[g200kg]

Is there any way to lock individual things in Skinman? I know there is on the tree view, but I can't seem to get the tree view to pop up anymore.

sorry but i didnt prepare the lock/unlock method other than Tree-window.
need short-cut key?

[Kriminal]

im talking about skinman, loading from scratch

sure, big projects take time, i'd expect that, but the main app takes an age still

Loading of the app takes more time, depending on the number of bitmaps in the textures folder. If you have some big in it, it also eats up much RAM. Seems it loads ALL textures into RAM, even with an empty project (and it likes to crash more when big textures are used). That should be changed (knobman does not do it).

i actually deleted a load of texture recently, but even before it loaded instantly...its only the last 3 or 4 updares that im getting the problem with

[brok landers]

Yes, SkinMan's font size unit is 'pixel' = point@72DPI

but the FontViewOK's font size unit seems a little strange value.
in general 96DPI display, 'point' to 'pixel' conversion should be 96/72 (not 72/96 ).
however, the 7.5pixel seems same size to FontViewer's Size=10 Why?

hmmm ... honestly, we're reaching out to a point where i don't have a clue anymore. all i know is, that in fontviewok there are all fonts displayed correctly no matter what, and in skinman i always have to fiddle around to make it work ...
why can't the fonts in skinman be handelled like most other fontviewers do?
so that they simply fit? at least when loading up any font, i'd like to have the option to have a perfect view on the font the way it actually is meant to work best. the way it is now i always have to fiddle around with various settings, just to make the font look the way it actually looked when it attracted me to download it ...

in addition, the 'XG pixo' font seems has some problem.
some character cant rendered normally (not only SkinMan but also InkScape)

that might be, but a lot of other pixel/bitmap fonts also have a problem in skinman.
the thing is, that if you i.e. work with the fontspacing in skinman, most of the fonts work perfect, once you have found a setting for fontspacing on them ... but that's really timeconsuming ...
well, to summ it up, the work with fonts in skinman is not ideal and really deserves to be brought to perfection ...

(Nonetheless, the SkinMan's pixel accuracy for fonts has room for improvement)

indeed ... well, to be fair, when antialiasing is _on_, it mostly works without noticable hicups, then it's just fine ... but for pixelfonts/bmp fonts and such very small stuff it really needs improovement.

It could be that the font size you are setting in the FontViewer thingie, is relative to system DPI setting (usually 96 on Windows). I think it was established earlier that Skinman uses point=pixel which would correspond to 72 DPI, so maybe you'll get better result if you scale the font-size by 72/96. That'd make your 10 point font into 7,5 point font to maintain the same pixel size...

thanks for the info, mystran ...

general add on:
i've noticed that i.e. fontviewok shows some fonts with antialiasing on, and some with antialiasing off. there's no switch, it just does that by itself. that leads me to think:
are there facts (size, use antialiasing/don't use it, etc) stored in the fonts themself? because if that is so, then i'd strongly suggest a font mode in skinman that loads the font _just_ the way it is meant to be used by the author (i.e. with the facts the author stored into the font itself, cos he did that for a reason then).

[g200kg]

general add on:
i've noticed that i.e. fontviewok shows some fonts with antialiasing on, and some with antialiasing off. there's no switch, it just does that by itself. that leads me to think:
are there facts (size, use antialiasing/don't use it, etc) stored in the fonts themself? because if that is so, then i'd strongly suggest a font mode in skinman that loads the font _just_ the way it is meant to be used by the author (i.e. with the facts the author stored into the font itself, cos he did that for a reason then).

OK, this is almost my moaning. please half-listen
i think that is depends on text hinting-info, embedded to font-file. exactly used for small font rendering (mainly adjust stem width). it is effective when render to screen. But vector based app (like SkinMan) should once get glyph-path data, and need to resize/rotate/adding-borders. hinting-info is lost when getting glyph

i tried some approach, automatically switch algo to direct rendering when no-rotate/no-aspect-change/no-border. but it seems unnatural. I may add a 'small-font optimize' button.


BTW, the startup time will be improved in next release. as was expected, it is caused by texture-files. current SkinMan (later that 0.97 around) load all textures at startup because of 'texture-type' combo-box thumbnails.

[Kriminal]

BTW, the startup time will be improved in next release. as was expected, it is caused by texture-files. current SkinMan (later that 0.97 around) load all textures at startup because of 'texture-type' combo-box thumbnails.

yeah, i noticed the thumbnails for textures recently, also you get a look at fonts too, is Skinman loading all those at startup?

[brok landers]

>snip<
OK, this is almost my moaning. please half-listen

oh, g200kg, i did not intend to come over like an ass, if i did,i'm sorry, it really wasn't meant that way. i was just mentioning these things as i don't have a clue about those things, and i thought that they maybe could be improoved ...

i think that is depends on text hinting-info, embedded to font-file. exactly used for small font rendering (mainly adjust stem width). it is effective when render to screen. But vector based app (like SkinMan) should once get glyph-path data, and need to resize/rotate/adding-borders. hinting-info is lost when getting glyph

ahh ... so it's not possible ... hmmm ... ok, i think then we have to just live with it i guess ...

i tried some approach, automatically switch algo to direct rendering when no-rotate/no-aspect-change/no-border. but it seems unnatural. I may add a 'small-font optimize' button.

that button is indeed a good idea ... so we could choose depending on the specific task ...

BTW, the startup time will be improved in next release. as was expected, it is caused by texture-files. current SkinMan (later that 0.97 around) load all textures at startup because of 'texture-type' combo-box thumbnails.

that's great to hear, thanks!

[spacedad]

a little OT but could g200kg drop in the dc09 chat room and collect his choice of non-cash prize please,it's your turn.

[g200kg]

hi,
0.99d is released
http://www.g200kg.com/en/software/skinman.html
* startup time improvement (with splash screen) when many textures installed
* FontSize 'Px' / 'Pt' switch is added
* 'SmallFontOpt' option for small font quality improvement (work only when aspect=100% & no-mirrored & no-rotation)

yeah, i noticed the thumbnails for textures recently, also you get a look at fonts too, is Skinman loading all those at startup?

Yes, not only just load, has been converted to internal texture data. in this release, still do initial loading but the convertion is postponed. let me know freely if you still feel stress.

oh, g200kg, i did not intend to come over like an ass, if i did,i'm sorry, it really wasn't meant that way. i was just mentioning these things as i don't have a clue about those things, and i thought that they maybe could be improoved ...

i just moaned about this complicated font system
im not sure the 'SmallFontOpt' is the best solution, but would be some help to who need smaill-texts.

a little OT but could g200kg drop in the dc09 chat room and collect his choice of non-cash prize please,it's your turn.