How can I get away with this...Flatting...Jazzing....

[diijay]

Hi guys I was wondering how can I use a progression like Imaj7-bVImaj7(2 alien notes)-Vminor7(1 alien note)-I7(1 but same alien note)-IVmaj7.

I was wondering when it's ok to use those Flats chord in a regular major scale song, with existing vocal line(major scale).
Should I use those chords alone, like nothing else playing at the same time,meaning together with them?
How should the rest of instruments must behave, should they follow the dissonance or keep them on scale?
What's the best approach to this?

Thanks.

[psenior]

There is no such thing as an alien note. There is no dissonance in this chord progression if you use the following guidelines. Please realize that you are not staying in one key the whole time. I took your progression and put it in the key of C. This gives us Cmaj7 Abmaj7 Gm7 C7 Fmaj7. Now, when I look at it like this, I would analyze it as the Cmaj7 being in the key of C major, the Abmaj7 being in the key of C minor, and the Gm7 C7 Fmaj7 as being a iim7-V7-Imaj7 that modulates to the key of F. It is an extra-smooth sounding ii-V because the Gm7 naturally occurs in the key of C minor (vm7) as well as the key of F major (iim7).
This is a very common chord change that can be found in several jazz standards. To describe it in a more abstract manner, we start off in a major key, next chord takes us to the parallel minor key, then we play the ii-V that resolves to the tonic beginning on the fourth note of the original major key.

[diijay]

Psenior, thanks for the answer and the explanation.
Very different way of seeing this progression that explain a lot.
So if modulates, I need to modulate all instruments as well right?
Like follow a similar progression or have the chords from other instruments being in key on the particular time that the modulation occurs.

You mentioned Abmajor in the key of C minor, so I would compose something,that plays at the same time or moment,with other instruments, in that key(C minor),then to F major,right?

If what I just said is correct I really understand what you meant and will be very useful. WOW that analysis really opened my eyes. Thanks.

Just a little doubt, in this case, I am composing to an existing vocal in Am, so I could even use C major progression(being the relative) that you described.
BUT, it's not gonna crash, sound bad with the vocal, in case this vocal sings only in A minor scale notes?

What should I avoid composing this chord progression with this vocal, what should I look for to avoid a big dissonances with the vocal, something that will be good to hear just like the progression by itself?

I really liked that chord progression and I would like to use it and make it work with the vocal.

Thanks again.

[psenior]

Psenior, thanks for the answer and the explanation.
Very different way of seeing this progression that explain a lot.
So if modulates, I need to modulate all instruments as well right?
Like follow a similar progression or have the chords from other instruments being in key on the particular time that the modulation occurs.

It is common for all the instruments to follow the chord changes, yes.

You mentioned Abmajor in the key of C minor, so I would compose something,that plays at the same time or moment,with other instruments, in that key(C minor),then to F major,right?

Sure, if that's the sound you are going for. I really don't know what style of music you had in mind for these changes. I am assuming some sort of electronic dance music.

If what I just said is correct I really understand what you meant and will be very useful. WOW that analysis really opened my eyes. Thanks.

You're welcome!

Just a little doubt, in this case, I am composing to an existing vocal in Am, so I could even use C major progression(being the relative) that you described.
BUT, it's not gonna crash, sound bad with the vocal, in case this vocal sings only in A minor scale notes?

A minor and C major contain all the same notes, so yes. Remember, your chords do not stay strictly in C major; they move. An A minor melody over that Cm7 chord will need to avoid any E natural notes (change them to Eb). Everywhere else, it should be OK. Might be best to stick to A minor pentatonic. Trust your ears.

What should I avoid composing this chord progression with this vocal, what should I look for to avoid a big dissonances with the vocal, something that will be good to hear just like the progression by itself?

Can't really give a better answer to that question than I already have above without hearing your melody line and your instrumental arrangement. And even then, it would just be my opinion. My opinion usually is melodies should be based on the chord changes (i.e. arppegios).

I really liked that chord progression and I would like to use it and make it work with the vocal.

Thanks again.

Yes, you are well on your way to composing a very nice song; very inspiring to me as a musician. Very much in line with my own personal tastes.

[diijay]

Hey psenior thanks, I have a small problem, maybe you could help me further.
Same music chorus melody goes ascending notes A - C - D - E.
I would like to use a similar sound of that progression we used, but that moves in a diferent direction(bassline), it's cool, but I need energy on the chorus not much contrast. I've tried inversions, didn't like.

What's your advice?

[psenior]

"Energy" could mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. It doesn't really speak about chords or melodies to me personally. Whatever you do in your chorus, it should probably contain the main "hook" of the song and be very "catchy", (i.e. memorable and repetitive).

It's really hard for me to tell if your A C D E melody has energy over the internet. If you listen to something like the B-52's "Rock Lobster," which has a very similar melody fragment played on a Farfisa organ with female background vocals harmonizing it, then yes, it has energy and is catchy.

Energy is probably going to come from some other part of your arrangement. Drums, bass, some interesting synth sounds or effects.

[jancivil]

Hi guys I was wondering how can I use a progression like Imaj7-bVImaj7(2 alien notes)-Vminor7(1 alien note)-I7(1 but same alien note)-IVmaj7.

I was wondering when it's ok to use those Flats chord in a regular major scale song, with existing vocal line(major scale).
Should I use those chords alone, like nothing else playing at the same time,meaning together with them?
How should the rest of instruments must behave, should they follow the dissonance or keep them on scale?
What's the best approach to this?

Thanks.

What style, what's it supposed to sound like?

If you stick to major scale derivation in the line, and now you introduce the chord 'bVI7', what notes sound wrong to you? Does, eg., C E G E in a line go good with your Abmaj7? Does the E note against the Eb in that chord sound good in your concept of a song, or not?

I mean there are ways you can get away with that in some music, but a normal popular song might not be the thing.

A chord such as bVI in the context of established as 'major scale', as has been said, mixes the (parallel) minor mode in. Normative sorts of music will tend to follow and use those melodies tones available to you from that scale, such as C minor where the Ab major triad is the naturally occurring VI chord. IE: you'd tend to wanna hear concordant tones over it, and eschew that E natural. I think you're looking for some change of color more than some spicy dissonance.

For some good mixage of minor and major modes, you can look to Schubert's songs for one, but you can go much further back in history for examples of stuff which works well.

[jsaras]

The most important interval to be on the lookout for is the -9 (an octave plus one half step) between any two voices in a vertical structure. A -9 is acceptable if you have a -7 underneath it (probably part of a dominant 7b9 chord).

However, you REALLY don't want a -3 and -9 in the same vertical structure under any circumstances.

If you run into one of these intervals move one of the notes by a half-step or whole-step to eliminate the dissonance.

Here is a quick simple example:

Left hand chord: C major (C,E,G)
Right hand melody note: F

Problem: There is a -9 interval between the "E" in the left hand and the melody.

Solutions: Change the "E" in the left hand structure to "Eb" or "D". Keep the "E" in the left hand and move the "F" melody to "F#".

I've studied composition at a very advanced level, and those are the only two "rules" that I have come to observe consistently. Everything else is "legal".