IK Multimedia 64bit ?

[paveloso]

x64 conversion not being simple is no excuse. x64 is the future, get onboard or fall behind.

Exactly! Any statement from IK Multimedia or its affiliates on 64bit plugins ?

Everyone knows 64 bit audio sounds twice as good as 32 bit audio, and four times as good as pathetic 16 bit CDs! Its time for action. We can't let the Russians get it first

Actually, we're talking about 64-bit memory addressing, not 64-bit audio. Completely different things.

[FrankT]

x64 conversion not being simple is no excuse. x64 is the future, get onboard or fall behind.

Exactly! Any statement from IK Multimedia or its affiliates on 64bit plugins ?

Everyone knows 64 bit audio sounds twice as good as 32 bit audio, and four times as good as pathetic 16 bit CDs! Its time for action. We can't let the Russians get it first

[FrankT]

I didn't want to be silent in this thread, but there's really not a lot to say though. There's no official roadmap for 64-bit native versions of the programs at the moment. Things do work in 64-bit environments and we'll continue to work on hardware drivers to ensure maximum compatibility. I just can't say there's any dates for any 64-bit native versions. thanks!

Hmm..not exactly what I was expecting to hear from one of the industry's main players, but thanks for the update!

[dgkenney]

Too soon??? The first consumer processors capable of 64-bit computing were released six years ago! We've been doing nothing but waiting for developers ever since.

Pity, you could have been making music the whole time.


Dan

[lightsfadelow]

I didn't want to be silent in this thread, but there's really not a lot to say though. There's no official roadmap for 64-bit native versions of the programs at the moment. Things do work in 64-bit environments and we'll continue to work on hardware drivers to ensure maximum compatibility. I just can't say there's any dates for any 64-bit native versions. thanks!

Well, you're the second IKMM person to tell me this and I have to say it's very disappointing that x64 is not a priority. I guess this falls into the realm of caveat emptor, as I'm a registered user of many of the T-racks singles, but I can't complain TOO much as I got them all for $99 on the group buy and they do seem to work ok under jbridge.

It's good to know that similar plugs from voxengo and PSP are now available in 64bit and that alone is tempting me to make the switch.

UltraJV would tell me that I'm bleeding edge with Windows 7 x64, Cubase 5.1.1 x64, and x64 versions of Omnisphere, Native Instruments Komplete, and Halion Symphonic Orchestra, as well as the latest and greatest x64 drivers for my ProFire 2626... oh and jBridge or the few FX (T-Racks included) that aren't native.

But I will say this, after using the system to make music for the last few weeks I have to admit that this is the MOST STABLE AND PERFORMANT DAW I HAVE EVER USED.

And I've been throwing more at it than I ever could on a 32bit system. For example, I was givem Sampletekk's "The Big One" (TBO) grand piano for Xmas and I was using the largest patch, which has 31 different velocity layers of every note recorded in 3 different configs (pedal up, down, and released), along with a full Omnisphere rack and Massive and Absynth... oh and I was auditioning orchestral samples in Kontakt at the same time. I had dynamics on 6 busses, stacks of FX on vocal lines, and I was at an ASIO load of below 20% and I had memory to spare. I would have run out of memory, had to freeze, and still be fighting ASIO overruns on my 32bit instance.

And I still haven't spent the small amount of cash ($160 or so) on the 8GB memory upgrade!!

Honestly, i couldn't give a crap about x86 versus x64 but I kept running out of memory on my 32bit system and that was getting in the way of my creativity. I was wasting time freezing tracks, disabling VSTs and VSTis, and it was impeding my creativity. I didn't realize the ASIO efficiency would also be much higher, so that was an added bonus.

Anyone who makes a big fuss about being on Windows XP x86 and that's the only way to go for a DAW hasn't actually set up a Windows 7 x64 box to see the difference. And if they haven't done it, they have no business commenting about whether or not Win7 or x64 is a good idea for a DAW.

I also think it's bogus that if a particular old VST or VSTi isn't available in x64 that's a reason not to change, when there are plenty of suitable alternatives out there (see this list for all of the x64 VST plugs available: http://www.kvraudio.com/get.php?mode=re ... =1&rpp=100) and when jBridge works well too.

So to the devs on the list at the link above, thank you for not sticking your head in the sand while progress marches by. And to IKMM and those who have "no plans," I hope your business model has accomodated the drop in sales you'll have over the next few years as people stop believing the one or two naysayers who are running Commodore 64s with tape drives

[UltraJv]

I didn't want to be silent in this thread, but there's really not a lot to say though. There's no official roadmap for 64-bit native versions of the programs at the moment. Things do work in 64-bit environments and we'll continue to work on hardware drivers to ensure maximum compatibility. I just can't say there's any dates for any 64-bit native versions. thanks!

Well, you're the second IKMM person to tell me this and I have to say it's very disappointing that x64 is not a priority. I guess this falls into the realm of caveat emptor, as I'm a registered user of many of the T-racks singles, but I can't complain TOO much as I got them all for $99 on the group buy and they do seem to work ok under jbridge.

It's good to know that similar plugs from voxengo and PSP are now available in 64bit and that alone is tempting me to make the switch.

UltraJV would tell me that I'm bleeding edge with Windows 7 x64, Cubase 5.1.1 x64, and x64 versions of Omnisphere, Native Instruments Komplete, and Halion Symphonic Orchestra, as well as the latest and greatest x64 drivers for my ProFire 2626... oh and jBridge or the few FX (T-Racks included) that aren't native.

But I will say this, after using the system to make music for the last few weeks I have to admit that this is the MOST STABLE AND PERFORMANT DAW I HAVE EVER USED.

And I've been throwing more at it than I ever could on a 32bit system. For example, I was givem Sampletekk's "The Big One" (TBO) grand piano for Xmas and I was using the largest patch, which has 31 different velocity layers of every note recorded in 3 different configs (pedal up, down, and released), along with a full Omnisphere rack and Massive and Absynth... oh and I was auditioning orchestral samples in Kontakt at the same time. I had dynamics on 6 busses, stacks of FX on vocal lines, and I was at an ASIO load of below 20% and I had memory to spare. I would have run out of memory, had to freeze, and still be fighting ASIO overruns on my 32bit instance.

And I still haven't spent the small amount of cash ($160 or so) on the 8GB memory upgrade!!

Honestly, i couldn't give a crap about x86 versus x64 but I kept running out of memory on my 32bit system and that was getting in the way of my creativity. I was wasting time freezing tracks, disabling VSTs and VSTis, and it was impeding my creativity. I didn't realize the ASIO efficiency would also be much higher, so that was an added bonus.

Anyone who makes a big fuss about being on Windows XP x86 and that's the only way to go for a DAW hasn't actually set up a Windows 7 x64 box to see the difference. And if they haven't done it, they have no business commenting about whether or not Win7 or x64 is a good idea for a DAW.

I also think it's bogus that if a particular old VST or VSTi isn't available in x64 that's a reason not to change, when there are plenty of suitable alternatives out there (see this list for all of the x64 VST plugs available: http://www.kvraudio.com/get.php?mode=re ... =1&rpp=100) and when jBridge works well too.

So to the devs on the list at the link above, thank you for not sticking your head in the sand while progress marches by. And to IKMM and those who have "no plans," I hope your business model has accomodated the drop in sales you'll have over the next few years as people stop believing the one or two naysayers who are running Commodore 64s with tape drives

I just give people a temperature reading from the comments devs have made. I run Windows 7 64 bit for browsing , Windows 7 32 bit for audio. Im all for advances in tech but they come at a price. What if IKMM etc spend $$$s on 64 bit and went bust due to lack of purchases? One dev said that 64 bit interest was shown at 14% of purchasers. Its obvious that changing to 64 bit for some devs is a finacial consideration, they will need a bigger market than 14% before commiting. The economy is in bad shape, I bet most devs have more than 64 bit problems to worry about.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

UltraJV would tell me that I'm bleeding edge with Windows 7 x64, Cubase 5.1.1 x64, and x64 versions of Omnisphere, Native Instruments Komplete, and Halion Symphonic Orchestra, as well as the latest and greatest x64 drivers for my ProFire 2626... oh and jBridge or the few FX (T-Racks included) that aren't native.

Dude? Seriously?

1. You're an early adopter. Deal with it.

2. You think IK will NEVER update to 64 bit? You think it will take years? They'll do it like everyone else will. I would guess within the next 18 months. Watch, it'll come.

3. What exactly is the problem with using the IK plugins as is? Don't they still run via a bridge in your host? If they're crashing your host, perhaps you should put in a support ticket (it'll be easier to fix the 32bit version than it would be to port everything to 64 bit).

4. You do know that Sonar, Reaper, and Cubase are really the only 64 bit hosts right now right? That leaves Logic, FL Studio, Live, Pro Tools, Samplitube, Digital Performer, etc. that are 32 bit only. The hosts listed in the second sentence combine to make a much larger portion of the total VST marketplace than those in the first sentence. This also goes back to point #1: you're an early adopter.

5. Vista got the reputation for sucking for pro-audio (so people stayed with XP) and Windows 7 only came out two months ago. Sure, hardware drivers have been out a while, but the vast majority of software is still 32 bit. What part of being an early adopter do you not get?

6. How many plugin manufacturers have gone 64 bit? Now compare that to the total.

7. You think it's fair to compare Kontakt and Omnisphere (which can use up tons and tons of RAM) going 64 bit fairly quickly with effect plugins (which generally don't use up tons of RAM) NOT going 64 bit? Sample based instruments went first because they HAD to as they would benefit the most from 64 bit. Effects will be the last to go because they will benefit the least.

I could go on.

[lightsfadelow]

Dude? Seriously?

Yes, seriously I'm not trying to stir up trouble, I'm trying to let everybody know tht Win7 x64 is a great DAW choice if you happen to be a Cubase user (or probably any of the other x64 DAWs on the market today). I just don't like the FUD (Fear, Unceartainty, Doubt) that's being spread around KVR about x64.

1. You're an early adopter. Deal with it.

Yes, I am an early adopter. But I'm not "bleeding edge" which implies pain. I'm in no pain right now. I love being 64bit and it's the best thing that's happened to unblock my creativity in a while.

2. You think IK will NEVER update to 64 bit? You think it will take years? They'll do it like everyone else will. I would guess within the next 18 months. Watch, it'll come.

Well, "NO PLANS" is pretty serious. I would hope that IKMM plans their release calendar more than 12mo in the future.

3. What exactly is the problem with using the IK plugins as is? Don't they still run via a bridge in your host? If they're crashing your host, perhaps you should put in a support ticket (it'll be easier to fix the 32bit version than it would be to port everything to 64 bit).

I do use them as-is. They run via jbridge. I'm generally happy with that. But I will say that I wouldn't buy them today, which is what the original poster was getting at. If I were buying from scratch, I'd be looking at Voxengo or PSP.

4. You do know that Sonar, Reaper, and Cubase are really the only 64 bit hosts right now right? That leaves Logic, FL Studio, Live, Pro Tools, Samplitube, Digital Performer, etc. that are 32 bit only. The hosts listed in the second sentence combine to make a much larger portion of the total VST marketplace than those in the first sentence. This also goes back to point #1: you're an early adopter.

I am just lucky that most of my big decsions in the 32bit world (Omnisphere, Cubase, Halion Symphonic Orchestra, etc.) went 64bit early. Again, I just got lucky. I didn't have forethought.

5. Vista got the reputation for sucking for pro-audio (so people stayed with XP) and Windows 7 only came out two months ago. Sure, hardware drivers have been out a while, but the vast majority of software is still 32 bit. What part of being an early adopter do you not get?

The part that you don't get is that there's a ton of FUD from people who aren't running Win7 x64 as a DAW and I want everybody to know that it's a great choice. That's what I am trying to share.

6. How many plugin manufacturers have gone 64 bit? Now compare that to the total.

Yep, still no IKMM, no Waves, no Sonnox...

7. You think it's fair to compare Kontakt and Omnisphere (which can use up tons and tons of RAM) going 64 bit fairly quickly with effect plugins (which generally don't use up tons of RAM) NOT going 64 bit? Sample based instruments went first because they HAD to as they would benefit the most from 64 bit. Effects will be the last to go because they will benefit the least.

Here's where I think you might be misunderstanding. A fully native x64 system is the ideal for x64. It matters not at all if T-Racks Classic Clipper uses almost no RAM. Because you don't use T-Racks Classic Clipper alone. You use it in a DAW with a host of other software. Some of that software uses a ton of RAM.

When people say "VST effects don't need to be x64 because they don't use a lot of RAM" that completely misses the point that they are just a part of the whole. UltraJV says that he doesn't use any samples, and I've listened to a bit of his music and it appears it's almost all synth-based, no live audio. So he doesn't need the RAM. But that's not true for a large number of DAW users today who live on big sound libraries.

I could go on.

I'm sure It's all good. Just getting the word out!

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

When people say "VST effects don't need to be x64 because they don't use a lot of RAM" that completely misses the point that they are just a part of the whole. UltraJV says that he doesn't use any samples, and I've listened to a bit of his music and it appears it's almost all synth-based, no live audio. So he doesn't need the RAM. But that's not true for a large number of DAW users today who live on big sound libraries.

This is where you loose me entirely. How does 32 bit T-Racks (or whatever) running via JBridge stop you from using samplers with large sound libraries? As far as I know, it doesn't.

If I'm right, and it doesn't impact the amount of total RAM available to your samplers and sample-based VSTi's, then why not just continue to use the bridge programs?

[lightsfadelow]

You are right on that front. Bridging is a fine temporary solution. But it's not an 'officially supported scenario' so it's not ideal. And as one of IKMM's paying customers I don't believe there is a higher development priority. And a I said before I'm not unhappy, but I would buy only x64 in the future and if I had known I was going x64 at the time of the group buy I would have sat out.

Again, $99 isn't anything to cry about so it's all good.

I'm mostly reacting to the uninformed anti x64 rants I've seen of late.

[gustavokch]

Is there any advantage in having effect processors in 64 bit? I thought the only advantage was memory addressing space, and if that's the case, there's no point in having native x64 plugs if they work fine in jbridge...

[lightsfadelow]

Is there any advantage in having effect processors in 64 bit? I thought the only advantage was memory addressing space, and if that's the case, there's no point in having native x64 plugs if they work fine in jbridge...

This is directly from the other thread, from the creator of the Voxengo plugs:

I tend to think, there is advantage since 64-bit codebase plug-ins run in a 64-bit environment that by default works in SSE mode and have 16 XMM floating-point registers instead of 8 registers available in 32-bit execution mode. In most cases, 64-bit plug-ins never use old "stacked" FPU programming model thus enjoying a flexible floating-point XMM register usage and allocation. Also in SSE mode compilers can vectorize a lot of code parts (make use of SIMD parallel computations) without any additional CPU overhead and programming effort

However, that's not really my point. In addition to the efficiency gains that Aleksey talks about here, there's also the penalty of bridging. Extra CPU cycles are requied because the audio data is shuttled back and forth between two processes. And as great as jBridge is (I'm an owner!), it's still a bit of a hack that's unsupported by Steinberg.

[koolkeys]

I think jBridge is a huge blessing, and a huge curse at the same time.

On one hand, it helps the transition to 64-bit by letting you use 32-bit plugs in a 64-bit host, or even the other way around if you need them. It gives people more of a reason to jump to 64-bit, and as a result will help to move the support further from the users.

On the other hand, I think jBridge is making some devs "lazy"(for lack of a better term) with making plugs 64-bit. They figure that if there is a working solution, why spend time doing the porting themselves? I think they may be missing the point a little that jBridge DOES add CPU load, just as any bridging solution does, even though it's small. But also, devs often say that they won't make a 64-bit plug because their plugs don't benefit from it, while they forget that the users may be using other plugs(samples) that DO benefit from it.

So it will be interesting how fast people jump on board. I've made the switch to Win7/64-bit and will never go back. It's wonderful so far. I do have a 32-bit laptop still, but my main system is the Win7 box. I'm not fooling myself into thinking that 64-bit is more mature than it is. But I do think that it's a better time than ever to jump in the water. I hope more devs jump on board, but it's good that jBridge is available for now in addition to the bridging in Sonar/Cubase/Reaper now.

Brent

[sounddesigner]

I think Protools just went x64 bit, atleast with a beta. Or am i wrong? If so then that should help a large part of the industry make the jump to X64Bit O/S since PT is one of the industry standards and probably most common, and that platform has many Effects plugins to lean on. Is'nt Presonous Studio One X64bit aswell? I myself will go X64bit in a couple weeks since SCOPE will have a X64Bit Beta. I think a large part of the industry will go X64 bit soon, it's much more possible, practical, and easier for many of us to do so now. I also have plugins such as Izotope, Nebula, and Voxengo that are X64 to handle most of the Native Platform work if the bridges prove to be a hassle or too inefficient, and use SCOPE's dsp plugins for the rest of the load. X64 is about to get alot more popular VERY soon i believe (probably within one years time), many people will want to get more performance out of their latest computers that are x64.



EDITED:

[hibidy]

Whooaaaaa!

At any rate, I feel very small about the lack of x64 support for plugs from so many companies I use. To be clear, it's about using extra ram (not about sound quality) and I'm surprised and frustrated that it's not more widespread.

This is why I gave up on the idea of getting a better computer for now. x64 seems to work for some, but not for others and there seems to be no real pin-point of why.

One thing is for certain though, developers NOT putting x64 as a priority is really deflating when us musicians really want to use mo' ram!