Is 2C's Aether REALLY worth it? (the answer is: yes, certainly)

[Blackinfinity]

If you ask me it is not worth it, while the sound is smooth I find it too be too muddy..the clarity could be better...the interface I really do not like..

I would spend the money on Masterverb 5 instead, pretty much the same price range. I did discover this reverb some week ago, and I think I even like it more then Ariesverb.

It is recommended especially for ambient music, where you need long lush tails...

http://wavearts.com/products/plugins/masterverb/

[quantize]

Aether way the best by far...anyone who says its muddy needs get to an audiologist quick smart.

[Blackinfinity]

Aether way the best by far...anyone who says its muddy needs get to an audiologist quick smart.

Well, I am not saying that all algorithms in this reverb are muddy...but it is all relative what you compare it too.. I think the price is way too high.... .But it is for sure one of the best software reverbs out there..but lately...soo much new algorithmic reverbs have been released..

in fact..I have never been satisfied with the sound of it..cause it does not have much respect for the source audio...I would assume that this has too do with the early reflections...that usually is what most software reverbs fail miserably at..and Aether is certainly one of them... Especially for the longer tail atmopsheric reverbs which I use,it sounds very muddy and unclear and non-beautiful. Try Masterverb 5 and you hear the difference...it blends together much better with the source. It provide good conrol of early/late reflections. The only thing I can complain about is the lack of modulation in the reverb and midi learn.

Some people have been mentioning EOS, I think it is a really good value for the money, but it is also a very simply reverb... the most limiting factor is the decay time which only is 10 seconds, for certain kinds of music and sounds it is not usable.I still use it for certain sounds in my mix, the early reelections is good, and it have respect for the source... the superhall algorithm have a quite nice character..

I really looking forward to try the RP verb...
Also to try the Lexicon PCM native Plugin. I am 99% sure already that I will buy it this year, cause I really need a good reverb.

[PaulSC]

respect for the source

Is that where a plug-in bows its head as the audio passes through

[Blackinfinity]

respect for the source

Is that where a plug-in bows its head as the audio passes through

Respect for the source and the early reflection must be the most important element in the reverb ? As long as it has respect to the source you can add as much modulation as you want... Lexicon have all of this.

[Andrew Souter]

...while the sound is smooth I find it too be too muddy..the clarity could be better...

...you may want to try reducing the modulation depth and/or increasing the modulation period significantly. Large amounts of modulation can result in a "chorusing" and "detuning" effect. This is can be very, very nice in many cases, but if you want ultimate clarity, you need to be careful with this control. This is part of the reason we allow modulation period to be ridiculously long (500sec), so you can still break up static resonances and avoid metallic tails, but also keep a very crisp and clear tail. It depends on what you need for the given source sound. Adjust to taste. (Other products offer separate algorithms for these needs: one for dense, detuned, almost "muddy" in a good way and one for the opposite. We attempt to offer both, and the full range in-between these two, with a single product.)

BTW, also note another cool feature is that if you turn modulation depth completely Off, the CPU resources needed for these calcs are removed from the load. This can be a substantial savings.

the interface I really do not like..

We are offering a new GUI option in 1.5.0. I posted an early version of it here some time ago...

[Melvin J.]

All of the clips I've heard do not bear any semblance of muddiness to me, that's for sure!

I thought Aether excelled at ER's!? It's should not fail at them like other reverbs do!

You do realize that the Native Lexicon plugin package is close to $1500.00, right? Aether is 249.95!

[Andrew Souter]

in fact..I have never been satisfied with the sound of it..cause it does not have much respect for the source audio...I would assume that this has too do with the early reflections...that usually is what most software reverbs fail miserably at..and Aether is certainly one of them... Especially for the longer tail atmopsheric reverbs which I use,it sounds very muddy and unclear and non-beautiful.

...while I don't agree with the severity of your conclusions here at all, I will say that we have invested A LOT of time of making exactly these things even better in 1.5.0.

But I should be careful not to talk up the unreleased version too much until we know better exactly when it will ship. I will just say I think you will be impressed. We have some interesting tricks up our sleeves....

[Blackinfinity]

in fact..I have never been satisfied with the sound of it..cause it does not have much respect for the source audio...I would assume that this has too do with the early reflections...that usually is what most software reverbs fail miserably at..and Aether is certainly one of them... Especially for the longer tail atmopsheric reverbs which I use,it sounds very muddy and unclear and non-beautiful.

...while I don't agree with the severity of your conclusions here at all, I will say that we have invested A LOT of time of making exactly these things even better in 1.5.0.

But I should be careful to talk up the unreleased version too much until we know better exactly when it will ship. I will just say I think you will be impressed. We have some interesting tricks up our sleeves....

Sounds good, I will definitely try 1.5. Also hope for a more compact interface, with less dead space if possible.

[Blackinfinity]

All of the clips I've heard do not bear any semblance of muddiness to me, that's for sure!

I thought Aether excelled at ER's!? It's should not fail at them like other reverbs do!

You do realize that the Native Lexicon plugin package is close to $1500.00, right? Aether is 249.95!

I have always been dreaming of a true Lexicon reverb, now I am able to get it much cheaper then the hardware...I think the price seem to e reasonable...since it is comparable to the PCM96. But yeah..I better be satisfied also if I spend that amount of money..but I am sure I will be... I have only heard mindblowing feedback so far...so I am sure it is worth every penny...

[Andrew Souter]

You do realize that the Native Lexicon plugin package is close to $1500.00, right? Aether is 249.95!

That does not bother us. We don't feel it is unfair to compare. We encourage it in fact. Cost will likely be factored into customer's purchase decisions obviously, but we see no reason why simply b/c it is 7 times as expensive as us, that we should accept lesser technical and aesthetic quality standards. I think we all have our sights set on perfection. We have deep respect for Lex, and we aspire to reach the level of quality that they are known for. If we have not already (I can't say b/c I have not heard their plug yet), be sure we will get there. We are quite obsessive!

At the same time, we are not interested in emulations. We learn from the past and have all likely read the same research papers from a long time ago, but since then we have made our own discoveries and we have our own vision. This is what inspires us, and we enjoy trying new things and interacting with the market to allow it to help guide us.

And well at the end of the day, if a customer has the desire and the money to pay for Lex, they are also likely to be the ones likely to have some reserve funds for Aether too! When I make music I don't only use 2CAudio and Galbanum products. I also use Waves, and NI, and Steinberg, and Apple, and Cakewalk, and MOTU, and MetaSynth, and Camel Audio, and Urs, and FX Expansion, etc. etc. In my opinion, Aether is still desirable even if you happen to purchase Lex. Just my thoughts...

[mystran]

David Griesinger has written some interesting stuff about clarity (as it relates to real halls), but the really, really short version comes down to something like: to improve clarity, lower the reverb energy in the first 100ms (or so) after the direct sound. In real acoustic places that typically comes down to eliminating some of the early reflections, but with plugins one can also do stuff like add pre-delay, or shape the tail of the algorithm to build slower, or whatever.

In the powerpoint I just took from Griesinger's site, he says that with regards to clarity, it's mostly frequencies above 700Hz that matter, which agrees pretty well with my totally informal experiments. One thing that a lot of authors note is that a lot of good sounding halls tend to have something (typically some structures on ceiling and/or walls) that traps higher frequencies. While this damps high frequencies (which is almost universally emulated) it also means most high frequency energy travels further before reaching audience; in other words, it's not just damped, it's also delayed: instant clarity.

I guess on a reverb where early reflections can be filtered separately, low-pass filtering them around 1k or so might be worth trying, leaving the higher frequencies only into the later tail. Or something...

IMHO the later tail itself makes little difference as far as clarity is concerned, assuming there aren't too obvious resonances (say something very boomy that masks direct sound) and modulation (if any) isn't taken to extremes (though that won't really affect clarity in the direct sound sense much, but it makes it impossible to pick any details from the tail).

My 0.02 euro, YMMV.

[valhallasound]

Some people have been mentioning EOS, I think it is a really good value for the money, but it is also a very simply reverb... the most limiting factor is the decay time which only is 10 seconds, for certain kinds of music and sounds it is not usable.I still use it for certain sounds in my mix, the early reelections is good, and it have respect for the source... the superhall algorithm have a quite nice character..

You can double the decay time of Eos by setting the Low Crossover as high as possible (like 16000 Hz or so), and setting the Low Multiply to 2x. The Low Crossover can be accessed from the "host" or automation view in many DAWs.

As far as Aether, have you tried listening to the late reverb on its own? The Lexicon reverbs that you like don't have many discrete early reflections; the 480L manual goes on at length about "The Early Reflection Myth." Try setting the Early/Late balance in Aether to 100% Late, and see if this gets closer to the sound you are looking for.

Sean Costello

[ariston]

Not to distract from the truly interesting discussion about muddiness and clarity, but having read so many criticisms of Aether's UI, I just wanted to add my 2 KHz into the mix by saying that I LOVE the UI. Every time I open the plugin, it screams "touch me". It really does, I swear it! I'm glad that you're offering alternative skins and are not replacing the original.

Blackinfinity, from what you say about Aether, I get the impression that you didn't spend much time with it and its many controls. I don't mean to offend, but did you actually read the manual and spend some effort getting to know what all those "ugly" knobs can do? I ask this simply because I can get so many different reverb characteristics using Aether.

Btw, I tried Masterverb while deciding, and while it's a good plugin, Aether won the direct comparison for me. I think it sounds richer, and it's better suited for sound design (which, in my case, can go to extremes). Thanks for the tip, though.

[Blackinfinity]

Not to distract from the truly interesting discussion about muddiness and clarity, but having read so many criticisms of Aether's UI, I just wanted to add my 2 KHz into the mix by saying that I LOVE the UI. Every time I open the plugin, it screams "touch me". It really does, I swear it! I'm glad that you're offering alternative skins and are not replacing the original.

Blackinfinity, from what you say about Aether, I get the impression that you didn't spend much time with it and its many controls. I don't mean to offend, but did you actually read the manual and spend some effort getting to know what all those "ugly" knobs can do? I ask this simply because I can get so many different reverb characteristics using Aether.

Btw, I tried Masterverb while deciding, and while it's a good plugin, Aether won the direct comparison for me. I think it sounds richer, and it's better suited for sound design (which, in my case, can go to extremes). Thanks for the tip, though.

Regarding Masterverb, I get the impression that you didn't spend much time with it, and it's many controls, I don't mean to offend you, but did you actually read the manual and spend some effort getting to know all it can do ?
I ask simply because I can get so many different reverb characteristics using Masterverb 5