How Many Units Does A Hit Synth Sell?

[Rolanoid]

again, thanks a lot for the insider insights (Ben, Angus, Urs, etc.)
i didnt know its that hard to make a living - even if ur on the top.

I think we should change our signatures to "Buy a plugin - feed a dev for a month"

[koalaboy]

I think we should change our signatures to "Buy a plugin - feed a dev for a month"

I've already fed a commune with my purchases over Christmas then

[robindrieghe]

i just googeld "meldaproduction mdrummer for sale" as im looking for a second hand copy,first thing i get as result were dozens of rapidshare links...i resist cause i want the updates for life but can imagine alot will not resist!

[xybre]

games do not count in this sense (entertainment is different than art).

Sorry, gotta pull that quote out real quick. Games have come a long way since pong first of all, and secondly people used to say the same things about motion pictures.

I find it difficult to stomach the idea that a game can't be art. In fact I've been considering using "interactive immersive 3D software" (ie a game) explicitly to present artist ideas in much the same way I would music or sculpture.

Anyway, sorry with the further derailment of the thread. To actually "answer" the question, the best numbers you can get other than from the few devs who've spoken is by looking at the numbers from the group buys, most of that was public knowledge.

[standalone]

I find it difficult to stomach the idea that a game can't be art. In fact I've been considering using "interactive immersive 3D software" (ie a game) explicitly to present artist ideas in much the same way I would music or sculpture.

I guess people that cannot see it this way never played Zelda or Ico.

[WilliamK]

I find it difficult to stomach the idea that a game can't be art. In fact I've been considering using "interactive immersive 3D software" (ie a game) explicitly to present artist ideas in much the same way I would music or sculpture.

I guess people that cannot see it this way never played Zelda or Ico.

+1

[amiga909]

I find it difficult to stomach the idea that a game can't be art. In fact I've been considering using "interactive immersive 3D software" (ie a game) explicitly to present artist ideas in much the same way I would music or sculpture.

I guess people that cannot see it this way never played Zelda or Ico.

+1

sure, making games is a kind of artistic expression. i share ur love, totally. zelda is multimedia high art. some amiga games conquered a place in my heart forever (ambermoon).

though my question was about comparable markets for vst plugins to reason if the low incomes for devs are specific.

playing games doesnt really count then, i guess? unless u can get some people watching you playing C&C all night long?

then a good (thanks!) question seems to be if the software market for making games has similar same problems as the software market for making music?

[xybre]

playing games doesnt really count then, i guess? unless u can get some people watching you playing C&C all night long?

Like Starcraft in Korea? You meant performance art then? I misunderstood

then a good (thanks!) question seems to be if the software market for making games has similar same problems as the software market for making music?

It might actually. The main difference is numbers. Almost any asshole can be a gamer, but considerably less people have the patience or give a shit about making music. Other than that I would suspect there's a lot in common in those markets.

[JMC]

I agree that things are changing with regard to attitudes to downloads vs boxed software products - people are becoming more willing to buy download only products.

Although we're only selling FL Studio boxed I have to say that in our situation things have been going the other way around and we have been selling more boxes than on-line versions for a couple of years in a row now.

I think it has a lot to do with the fact that a lot of our users :

- don't have a credit card (or refuse to use it on-line)
- don't trust the whole 'virtual' thing and want something to hold
- get the product as a gift.

I've asked this question of IL about Harmless;

We sold a couple of 1000 in a couple of days but we'll have to see in the end how this impacted its complete turnover (in money) by the end of the year.

Regarding piracy: The most successful day of ACE wasn't the day it came out, but the day when a timer driven deep check un-cracked the crack

Same thing here : In the middle of the summer of 2008 our sales suddenly went through the roof ... as a popular (wannabe) crack expired.

Regarding numbers : Last year our 'Online Content Library' (a tool inside FL Studio that allows you to stream presets into our synths) was hit 21.000.000! times using a warez version.

[pwal]

... the day when a timer driven deep check un-cracked the crack

class

[Breeze]

When I was working as an AV Tech (in order to fund my plugin addiction!) most of the other techs were also into making music with music software but I was the only one who actually bought it and so was often looked at sideways. Their justification was that if they are not making any money out of the music then it's ok to use cracked software. But that's like saying if I'm not a DJ and therefore don't make any money playing my CDs then its ok for me to just go down to HMV and nick em.

This is just my moral oppinion for what it's worth but if you make a concious decision to use a product then your conscience should be telling you that its not right to just use it without paying for it.

I believe one part of the problem with piracy is that there's no means for a casual user to legally use the best tools without an extravagant outlay of money. If I need to edit 10 pictures a year for my personal use, but I want to be able to use a professional editor, the current doctrine says I should buy Photoshop for $800 or make do with an inferior tool.

Same can be said for students who often survive on rice and peanut butter sandwiches (and beer...) who want to learn the ins and outs of as much software as they can; yes academic discounts exist, but given a choice between pirated software or peanut butter and rice (and beer...), the choice is often sadly clear.

One company which has spearheaded a counter practice is Cockos with Reaper, with a very low-priced non-commercial license, and a non-crippled demo mode. Mind you, the author was rich to begin with, so it's not a fair example. Others are experimenting with rental models, or extended paid support. But mostly, it's still a "one price fits all" mentality. Unlike hardware, software has some flexibility and price can be adapted to particular uses, though in the end the model still comes down to the honesty of the users. Maybe some kind of licensing agreement that includes revenue from commercial use of software should be considered. I completely agree that commercial use of unlicensed software is unethical and unforgivable. The only thing that can stem that is education.

Thanks to the devs that replied to this thread for their candor. It would seem that this industry is fueled primarily by enthusiasm and explains why so many music software houses have closed or changed hands in the last decade. Let's face it it's a niche market. The best we can do in the shorter term is sustain that enthusiasm by frowning on unethical practices and encourage those that in turn sustain our own enthusiasm. In the longer term, lets hope humanity can find better ways of handling IP without resorting to locks and penalties...

[mystran]

Regarding numbers : Last year our 'Online Content Library' (a tool inside FL Studio that allows you to stream presets into our synths) was hit 21.000.000! times using a warez version.

Ok, that's a big number, but depending on what happens in that situation, there's probably duplicates, no? Any idea of how many unique IPs did you get?

[ckatrun411]

I believe one part of the problem with piracy is that there's no means for a casual user to legally use the best tools without an extravagant outlay of money.

I disagree.


You don't need to own 200 synths, compressors, eq's, and the like. You can spend a few hundred dollars, and surely pick up enough software. I know people don't wish to believe that...

Actually, most expensive stuff is Audio Card, Monitors, Microphone, Computer, traditional instruments, drum kits, amps, guitars, pianos, and the like.


The software, certain things are stupidly overpriced for 2010, and certain options make a pro virtual studio for quite a bit less than a $1,000.

[JMC]

there's probably duplicates, no? Any idea of how many unique IPs did you get?

There certainly are duplicates but those are only the warez users that are stupid enough to try to come online to the official company servers with their cracked software.

I'd think the majority of them is clever enough not to do this and/or stay offline with it.

[WilliamK]

If I need to edit 10 pictures a year for my personal use, but I want to be able to use a professional editor, the current doctrine says I should buy Photoshop for $800 or make do with an inferior tool.

I work with graphical design, and I got PhotoPlus from www.Serif.com for less than $99. Actually, the first version I got was for $39 USD, thanks to a promo they were having. And it does everything I need. It may not be the Photoshop HQ product, but still, does what I need.