How Many Units Does A Hit Synth Sell?

[djscorb]

This is the point i was trying to make. Alot of people were speculating about their turnover and product sales. Nobody mentioned the beatport alliance so i thought I would.

The only public information about this is that NI gave Beatport money. The player seems to be more of a gateway drug for Traktor, so I doubt NI makes a single cent out of Beatport direct, only in the site's potential to promote their DJ software.

Yes I'm speculating to a degree. You are however speculating too and playing devils advocate.

i think it would be realistic to assume that if NI initially invested hard cash in Beatport then they would expect an ongoing return. (Why else would they invest?)

if they don't generate revenue from their alliance with Beatport I would be very very surprised.

"With the new generation of Traktor Pro, the integration with the leading dance music download store Beatport will also be taken to the next level. Starting in 2009, all new releases on Beatport will come with TRAKTOR metadata, enabling DJs to add newly purchased tracks to their collection without any additional preparation time. (Native Instruments has an equity position in Beatport Ed.)

this is from:

http://todaydownloading.blogspot.com/20 ... o-123.html

nuff said really. If you don;t think that they are making cash through beatport you are being an ostrich!

[amiga909]

maybe establishing new ways of not-download sales would help.

Plus, those mass market retailers are pure evil to deal with from a business point of view. Big box MI retailers are plenty bad enough, but High Street chains and non-MI big boxers are a whole new level of pain. There's a reason you don't find this stuff in those stores.. you think NI wouldn't be there like a shot if they thought it viable?

I agree that things are changing with regard to attitudes to downloads vs boxed software products - people are becoming more willing to buy download only products.

Although we're only selling FL Studio boxed I have to say that in our situation things have been going the other way around and we have been selling more boxes than on-line versions for a couple of years in a row now.

just a guess, but i believe it would make a substantial difference if VST devs managed to get their stuff in a physical shape.
face it: the digital domain IS considered as being worthless. i know, this might change. but for medias (where i work) people are wondering since 10 y. why online advertisment still gives pennies while paper adverts make the dollar.
two things to consider.
1) cheap retail.
maybe its illusionary. still i wonder why record shops and specialized electronic gear stores never covered the magic of software. what they offered is boring NI, steinberg, logic stuff. never saw an ohmforce plugin running in shops that had exotic hardware to try out at the same time.
there should be ways to get with boxed products to the people that really want it? they dont buy in supermarkets anyway..
2) accessoires.
manuals are often given away for free (PDF). why?
a well written manual makes a big difference for me. i remember buying amiga games just to get the accessoires (nice storybook, manual, wallpaper, etc.).
what can be given away for free is a programmers reference (midi implementation, specs). i love having a book that helps me to explore a synth. sadly the art of writing nice manuals vanished. maybe because the skill and will of reading texts vanished...

[ew]

... the day when a timer driven deep check un-cracked the crack

class

Indeed. I like your style, Urs

ew

[Gamma-UT]

Yes I'm speculating to a degree. You are however speculating too and playing devils advocate.

i think it would be realistic to assume that if NI initially invested hard cash in Beatport then they would expect an ongoing return. (Why else would they invest?)

if they don't generate revenue from their alliance with Beatport I would be very very surprised.

"With the new generation of Traktor Pro, the integration with the leading dance music download store Beatport will also be taken to the next level. Starting in 2009, all new releases on Beatport will come with TRAKTOR metadata, enabling DJs to add newly purchased tracks to their collection without any additional preparation time. (Native Instruments has an equity position in Beatport Ed.)

this is from:

http://todaydownloading.blogspot.com/20 ... o-123.html

nuff said really. If you don;t think that they are making cash through beatport you are being an ostrich!

Try reading this bit again: "The player seems to be more of a gateway drug for Traktor, so I doubt NI makes a single cent out of Beatport direct, only in the site's potential to promote their DJ software."

Putting Traktor metadata in the downloads helps promote Traktor. There is no need for Beatport to pay NI a cut of royalties (which would be pretty unlikely even if NI had implemented the website for Beatport, which I think was your initial claim). More DJs buying files => more Traktor sales. Seems a good enough reason for a company such as NI to make an investment with no change in its business model.

[v1o]

Since when did NI become web developers?
I thought they were DSP programmers.

you're right. absolutely everyone at the company just does DSP programming, even the secretaries who dont actually know how to type but all have Comp Sci and Electronics Engineering PhDs.

Oh yes. NI most likely even outsourced their web site. Its a typical 'showcase' designer flash app with poor usability & ergonomics.

Studying computer science doesn't make you a professional web developer. Your experience and expertise may be in C/C++ not Adobe Flash or Ajax. Besides most 'coders' aren't necessarily 'designers'.

[v1o]

Look for yourself!

Go to Beatport and look in the bottom left corner!

You can tell its NI from a mile away too. Even looks like their plugins!

From an About.com interview with Jonas:

"RS: It's well-known that you're integrating into Traktor as part of the features set. What other software programs you're looking to do that with?
Beatport: Native Instruments is a premier partner to Beatport and they were an investor, so they actually helped us quite a bit in the initial phase. So the only I guess inline relationship that we will have is with Native Instruments and their products. But through our relationship, we also work with Pioneer and we're in talks with every manufacturer of DJ products, so pretty much everybody we're talking to. Because we want to help evangelize this digital platform and make it good for their customers, Beatport needs to be Switzerland, so we shouldn't be proprietary to somebody's format. We should be about bringing music to the DJ community and fans of electronic music, that's our vision."

NI provided a player application in the early days which let you x-fade from one track to another then provided Beatport Sync as a low-end tool, primarily to get people onto the idea of using Traktor.

Beyond the player(s), I don't think NI has any involvement with the site design or coding.

Its very clear from here that apart from being an investor, NI only provided the players.

[mystran]

manuals are often given away for free (PDF). why?
a well written manual makes a big difference for me.

Well, on the other hand a well-written manual can also serve as advertising, because when you wonder whether something does what you want, often the sales information is lacking, but you can find the answer in the manual. Freely available manuals have made me decide to buy stuff, that I probably would have skipped (or simply considered until I forgot) if there wasn't a manual that sold the product to me.

[djscorb]

Yes I'm speculating to a degree. You are however speculating too and playing devils advocate.

i think it would be realistic to assume that if NI initially invested hard cash in Beatport then they would expect an ongoing return. (Why else would they invest?)

if they don't generate revenue from their alliance with Beatport I would be very very surprised.

"With the new generation of Traktor Pro, the integration with the leading dance music download store Beatport will also be taken to the next level. Starting in 2009, all new releases on Beatport will come with TRAKTOR metadata, enabling DJs to add newly purchased tracks to their collection without any additional preparation time. (Native Instruments has an equity position in Beatport Ed.)

this is from:

http://todaydownloading.blogspot.com/20 ... o-123.html

nuff said really. If you don;t think that they are making cash through beatport you are being an ostrich!

Try reading this bit again: "The player seems to be more of a gateway drug for Traktor, so I doubt NI makes a single cent out of Beatport direct, only in the site's potential to promote their DJ software."

Putting Traktor metadata in the downloads helps promote Traktor. There is no need for Beatport to pay NI a cut of royalties (which would be pretty unlikely even if NI had implemented the website for Beatport, which I think was your initial claim). More DJs buying files => more Traktor sales. Seems a good enough reason for a company such as NI to make an investment with no change in its business model.

I'm not sure why you are arguing my point.

I may well be wrong about NI developing the interface for beatport.

However they are one of the most successful software/plugin devs out there. My initial point was that this is partly due to their other activities. We can speculate all day long as to whether they make money out of beatport directly or whether cross promotion for Trakter is their main aim. At the end of the day they hold equity in Beatport and therefore will make money from beatport.

i guess if say Tone2 had a deal with iTunes and their logo emblazened on itunes front page then this would also give them a stronger position in the market place.

typical flamer response to look at what was said instead of trying to understand what was meant.

NI and Beatport are partners.

This makes NI stronger in the marketplace than other vst devs.

simplez to understand no?

[Barf]

I was a bit surprised to hear Dave Spears of G Force Media say on a podcast that they sell more AU and RTAS synths than VST.

[highkoo]

I was a bit surprised to hear Dave Spears of G Force Media say on a podcast that they sell more AU and RTAS synths than VST.

that is actually something that doesnt surprise me so much. i wouldve expected theyd be closer to even maybe.

if you have a mac there is a much higher chance that you have extra cash. and thats not just an opinion, or meant to be negative.
rich folk and pros have macs, and those two groups can afford to toss money around.

edit:
oh, plus nothing for mac gets cracked much, so.. they cant be tempted by the dark side so much...

[PaulSC]

I was a bit surprised to hear Dave Spears of G Force Media say on a podcast that they sell more AU and RTAS synths than VST.

that is actually something that doesnt surprise me so much. i wouldve expected theyd be closer to even maybe.

if you have a mac there is a much higher chance that you have extra cash. and thats not just an opinion, or meant to be negative.
rich folk and pros have macs, and those two groups can afford to toss money around.

edit:
oh, plus nothing for mac gets cracked much, so.. they cant be tempted by the dark side so much...

All valid points, I think. Also, there are fewer AU/RTAS choices, which means less competition within each category.

[Breeze]

if you have a mac there is a much higher chance that you have extra cash. and thats not just an opinion, or meant to be negative.
rich folk and pros have macs, and those two groups can afford to toss money around.

edit:
oh, plus nothing for mac gets cracked much, so.. they cant be tempted by the dark side so much...

That simply and sadly isn't true. Some years ago I remember a studio assistant being told to take "most" of those plugins out of the main room's mac because they weren't stable... But considering that you're right about who can afford these machines, it makes it all the more despicable, doesn't it?

[pljones]

Someone asked about game comparisons. I write/maintain tools for making Sims2 and Sims3 mods. They're used by people wanting to create game content to share with others, either for free or for pay. So a bit like a synth used by people to create songs available for free or pay. Best I can come up with as a comparison. Both are free software.

Sims2 tool (SimPe) downloads
peak March 2008 = 80,172 (generally 50K-70K)
total since March 2005
(two years with under 2000pm, then sudden step to 70Kpm!) = 1,559,137 (limited by SourceForge stats, probably higher)

Sims3 tools (s3pe+s3oc) downloads
peak July 2000 = 8,680 (generally around 5K)
total since May 2009 = 42,987

Now most of the downloads (particularly the Sims3 tools) are updates. I'd reckon for SimPe, around 50K active users whilst the game was current (fewer now but it's still getting downloads) and for sims3 tools, maybe 500?

Not sure how useful these will be in any comparisons, as I've no idea how widely-played Sims2 or Sims3 are. They're not exactly huge, though - I hardly ever see people talking about them. Which is why the SimPe download figures always stagger me! (If we got paid for it... wheee! )

[penguinfromdeep]

Sims must be the most succesful computer game ever, it is the best-selling PC game in history! So I guess it's quite popular

[highkoo]

if you have a mac there is a much higher chance that you have extra cash. and thats not just an opinion, or meant to be negative.
rich folk and pros have macs, and those two groups can afford to toss money around.

edit:
oh, plus nothing for mac gets cracked much, so.. they cant be tempted by the dark side so much...

That simply and sadly isn't true. Some years ago I remember a studio assistant being told to take "most" of those plugins out of the main room's mac because they weren't stable... But considering that you're right about who can afford these machines, it makes it all the more despicable, doesn't it?

oh, you mean they are getting cracked now..?
i know 'years ago', it was a pretty small amount, by comparison.
..
oh snap. things change.

i sort of woulda thought the sceners would of left them untouched as sort of a sort of subtle social commentary.. or some shit.