Guitar scales and speed - How fast?

[generalstargazer]

here's a great pentatonic lick to learn



same dude like 20 years later:

[hibidy]

here's a great pentatonic lick to learn



same dude like 20 years later:

That guys fingers are longer from the first bend point up than my whole fingers

[generalstargazer]

here's a great pentatonic lick to learn



same dude like 20 years later:

That guys fingers are longer from the first bend point up than my whole fingers

Yeah they are really long

Well hopefully your fingers are long enough to play pentatonic scales?

[kbaccki]

Oh... Paul Gilbert? Yeah, he's got daddy longleg fingers fer sure... I think his pinky is about as long as my index finger. He's got some good advice on picking and whatnot if you dig up his videos on youtube (the more recent ones where he has short hair, not his earlier hair metal videos)...

[A.M. Gold]

here's a great pentatonic lick to learn

Nice tour through the graveyard of washing machines there in the background.

[rbarata]

Hello my friends

My question about speed was not because I'm looking for a hyperspeed. I'm learning scales now because I want to be able to make and play my own solos but I don't have a single clue how to do it. I know somw techniques but I don't know much of the note on each string/fret. Scales will help to improve this as well as my technique, speed and finger stretching.
So, what means mastering a scale? Among other things, there's speed. Probably I'm trying to apply logic to something not logic at all but if I have came to the point of playing a C Major (Ionian) scale almost perfectly at a rate of 2 notes per second (120 bpm), do you think that it's time to move on to another scale?

I think so...

[C00kie]

I'm learning scales now because I want to be able to make and play my own solos but I don't have a single clue how to do it.

I'd just try to play along with tunes on the radio or some CD's.

but if I have came to the point of playing a C Major (Ionian) scale almost perfectly at a rate of 2 notes per second (120 bpm), do you think that it's time to move on to another scale?

I think so...

No, playing a scale in quarter notes is rather too slow. Unless you only wanna play psalms ofcourse.
Also you need to practice with including other intervals, if you don't already.
Next scale to practice should be pentatonic btw. You'll get to use that one more often than you think.

[rbarata]

I'd just try to play along with tunes on the radio or some CD's.

I'm looking for a site, book, whatever where I can find songs to jam along...my problem is that I don't know which scale to apply to a song. How can I do it?

No, playing a scale in quarter notes is rather too slow. Unless you only wanna play psalms ofcourse.

Yeah, for soloing purposes I know it's too slow but as a newbie learner, it would fine to move on to another just to avoid boredom and start to relate scales between each other, don't you think?

[C00kie]

The three most popular scales are the basic major, minor and the pentatonic scales. Others are derivations. When you start the major scale of C at the A for example, then you're playing the minor scale.

Go find some guitar tabs. There are plenty sites around.

[cosmonauttransfer]

In order to learn which scales to use with which chords you need to learn a little music theory. Scales and chords are directly related.
For instance the Cmajor scale has the following notes

C D E F G A B C

Each note of the scale has an associated chord. The notes that make up that chord are next to the chord name

Cmajor C E G
Dminor D F A
Eminor E G B
Fmajor F A C
Gmajor G B D
Aminor A C E
Bdimb7 B D F
Cmajor C E G

I hope you can see the pattern here. Therefore for any chord progression using the chords of Cmajor, you can use the cmajor scale over the top. This pattern of chords is the same for all major scales, thus Dmajor would have the following chords

D E F# G A B C# D

Dmajor D F# A
Eminor E G B
F#minor F#A C#
Gmajor G B D
Amajor A C# E
Bminor B D F#
C#dimb7 C#E G
Dmajor D F# A

I hope this sheds a little light on scales, but the best advice I can give is to get some personal tuition. A teacher can slowly steer you through the intricasies of music. Scales and chords are ingrediants to be mixed in a variety of ways. Do not get hung up on speed either. That will comer with time, musicality is FAR MORE IMPORTANT !!
hope that helps

[rbarata]

I've found this: http://www.howmusicworks.org/hmw600.html

As I was reading it, a doubt came to my mind: why are some chords called something7 or something 5h. I was looking to staff examples and I noticed the following, which I don't know if it's correct.

If I create a chord using the Cmaj scale, the basic chords are constructed with 3 notes (for example, Cmaj = C E G). Because in staff notation the G is 5 lines higher than C, it's called Cmaj5.

If I create another chord by adding another note after the G, I will use the rule of adding 4 half-tones which gives a B.
This chord, in staff notation, note B is 7 lines (or half-tones) above C. That's why it's called Cmaj7.

If I create another chord by adding a 5th note, following the same rule, I will add D.
In staff notation, this D, is 9 lines (or half-tones) higher than C. Hence the name: Cmaj9.

Is this correct?

[wrench45us]

the names are based on the intervals C->G is a 5th C->E is a maj 3rd C->Eb is a minor 3rd etc C->B is a 7th

the staff in a rather indirect way represents intervals; you'd get in trouble with counting lines with a lot of key signatures (at least I would)

better to understand the interval basis

related, but irrelevant geek note:
over time some of these common intervals change names
I just learned that the interrval commonly referred to for many years as a flat 5, is more correctly called raised of sharp 4 -- same interval, just sharp 4 is seen as more corectly fitting in the scale
still easier (for most) to think of it as a flat 5

[kbaccki]

Sounds like you're on the right track, except for that first part... The "maj5" is implied by the basic C major triad -- C E G. The E is the major third, which gives the tonality, while the the 5th G strongly correlates to the root C in the sense that the C and G by themselves are not enough to determine the "quality" of the chord. There's no such thing as "Cmaj5" -- it's just "C major", or more succinctly "C". In fact the 5th interval is called a "perfect 5th", not a "major 5th".

There is such a thing as "C5", which is just C and G -- a power chord. Power chords are played either I - V or I - V - I. If you were to play an open E chord, the lower 3 strings (string #6, #5, #4) would give you I-V-I tones of E major, and that shape can be slid up/down the neck for any key where the root is on the E string. You can also use that same shape with the root on the A string.

When you get to 7th, 9th, 10th, 11th, etc., then you'll start to see the "maj" qualifier, but it applies to the 7th tone. A "maj7" chord takes the 7th tone from the major scale -- B in the case of C major. The other types of 7th chord is a "dominant 7th" which uses a flat 7th tone -- C E G Bb.

Dominant 7th gives a more bluesy sound, as opposed to the bright/happy/airy sound of the major 7th. Dom 7th is used certainly in blues and rock. The major 7th tonality gives you a totally non-bluesy sound, so you can see where dom7 has it's uses.

So for C major your 7th chords are:

C7 or Cdom7 -- C E G Bb
Cmaj7 or CM7 or CΔ7 -- C E G B

Note the triangle shape notation for the Cmaj7, which you'll probably see more in jazz contexts. Later you'll have minor 7th, diminished 7th, etc.

As mentioned above, you should start observing the intervals as well. E.g., for major 7th chord we have:

C -> E -- major 3rd
E -> G -- minor 3rd (relative to the E major scale)
G -> B -- major 3rd

Undestanding some basic intervals -- maj/min 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. -- on the guitar fretboard will help you start to see relationships in chord shapes, scales, arpeggios, etc. But you definately need to first get a systematic view of the fretboard itself, which is no small feat. I would recommend starting with a note exercise like this:

http://www.justinguitar.com/en/TB-007-NotesOnNeck.php

If you realy start understanding where even a small group of notes are across the fretboard -- say C - E - G, or C - D - E -- you will start to see a pattern. Basically, you can group the strings into groups of 2 (1-2, 3-4, 5-6), and see repeating shapes over the fretboard. The one stickler is the relationship between the G and B strings, which is a major 3rd interval, as opposed to perfect 4th for all other string relationships.

Check out other beginner lessons on that site above... he has some good stuff there.

I would also start looking into the 5 pentatonic scale patterns, because a.) you will use them forever, b.) they're pretty simple compared to maj/min scales, and c.) the relationships between the 5 patterns apply to other types of scales as well, so will help you start to see the big picture of the fretboard rather than just individual scale shapes. Will see if I can dig up a good internet resource for pentatonics...

[kbaccki]

Here's a decent overview of the 5 (minor) pentatonic shapes:

http://www.myguitarworkshop.com/Theory/ ... tterns.htm

Try to dig up some theory on pentatonics... to get you started, a minor pentatonic consists of: root, flat 3rd, 4th, 5th, flat 7th.

First, notice how they interconnect like puzzle pieces... the "right" side of one shape is the "left" side of the next shape, etc. Also, note that the root notes are marked as red (G minor in that case).

Major pentatonic scales use the same scale shapes, just the root notes are different... if you play the 2nd scale pattern from the link above starting on G (3rd fret) of the low E string, you would have major pentatonic, which consists of: root, 2nd, maj 3rd, 5th, 6th.

http://www.myguitarworkshop.com/Theory/ ... tterns.htm

Finally, for the repeating patterns thing I mentioned previously, look at the first 4 notes of the first position minor pentatonic (low E and A strings). Now look at the middle 4 notes of the 2nd position minor pentatonic (G and D strings). Now look at the top 4 notes of the 3rd pos scale (B and E strings). Same notes in different octaves, and same "box shapes"! For pentatonics there are 5 such "box shapes" that repeat over the fretboard like that (because there are 5 notes in the pentatonic scale).

Finally... a very useful pentatonic exercise to get you thinking about connecting the shapes up and down the fretboard...



Very simple idea, but very effective... for soloing you don't want to think in terms of individual boxes, etc....

[jcrisman]

Hello, my friends

I'm learning guitar scales and I would like to know how fast is enough to consider learning a new scale.
The experts say that, in your trainning, you only should move on to a new scale when you master the one you are learning at the moment. This includes speed. But how fast is enough?

Thanks

The short answer:
It is up to you and your hands to decide how fast you wish to play a new scale cleanly before moving on to a new scale.

Ideally you will be able to immediately recall scale notes as quickly as one mentally retrieves words to speak and write sentences. This requires finger memory as well as brain and ear memory--all which can be improved by practicing.


The long-winded answer:
I think it depends on your goals as a guitarist. If you wish to be a shredder, then one never stops attempting to play scales, licks, and riffs at as fast as one can play cleanly. But as fast guitar isn't a prerequisite for most musical genres, whatever is a comfortable pace for you is ultimately the pace you should play. In a nutshell: learn to play as fast (and as cleanly) as you need to in order to express yourself musically, or as fast as necessary to play a composition accurately.

Bear in mind that playing speed is only one aspect of music. Many guitarists make beautiful music without using much speed at all since the choice of notes, phrases, melodies, chords, and arpeggios are at least as--if not more important than--speed.

While I too can be impressed by athletic guitar work, bear in mind that being too focused on speed can be detrimental should one develop carpal tunnel, tendinitis, and arthritis due to the repetitive stress necessary to maintain the ability to execute high speed chops. Also human aging and mass produced guitars (that don't give wrist/hand/finger ergonomics high priority) too make the shredder clique prone to chronic hand problems.