Guitar scales and speed - How fast?

[generalstargazer]

here just spend a lot of time learning the stuff at this site:

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/

[rbarata]

Wow, great answers. I'll have to look at them more carefully. That's a a lot of info.

As far as I understood, an interval is the range between two adjacent lines in the staff (with a blank in between) which, in fact, is not direct because when you express the notes like "C D E F G A B C" there's something in between (in the case of this scale, between a 3rd there's note D, between a 5th it's F, etc). Am I correct?

Another question for a quick answer: when you say that C->Eb is a minor is it because D and E it's half tone lower?

About speed, my concern is that I don't want my song writing to be limited by the speed I can achieve. It would be a little boring to have all songs with slow solos just because I can't play them faster.

[kbaccki]

About speed, my concern is that I don't want my song writing to be limited by the speed I can achieve. It would be a little boring to have all songs with slow solos just because I can't play them faster.

It would be equally boring to just be able to have your solos limited to just a couple of scale riffs at blazing speed... The speed will come naturally with simple muscle memory training. The harder stuff to master is pick-/fret-hand coordination, string muting (so that strings that shouldn't be ringing aren't), basic theory, fretboard layout/relationships, intervals, etc.

[videzyrah]

Don't use the staff to conceptualize your intervals. The staff only represents the seven notes in a given key, as opposed to the full 12 semitones in an octave. Use the number of frets (semitones) between notes on your guitar to conceptualize the intervals / scale degrees.

I would disagree with the concept of not playing a new scale until you master the one your working on. Developing a feel for the difference in "mood" conveyed by each scale (mode) is going to be just as (if not more) important as being able to physically play them; holding back is just gonna prolong how long it takes for you to pick up on this. Furthermore I imagine you will get burnt out and or finger fatigue alot quicker by this method and therefore spend less time practicing.

I suppose I would recommend playing along to a drum machine/plugin beat; eighth notes at 90 bpm and speed up or slow down as your comfort commands.

At first you may feel more comfortable practicing at one position on the fretboard or another; i.e. Gmajor starting at the 3rd fret, A major starting at the 5th, Bmajor at the 7th, Cmajor at 8th, or Dmajor at 9th. As said, learn the shape at any of those positions and it will be movable (transposable) to the others.

For the other guy, IMO "flattened fifth" or "sharpened fourth" simply depends on whether it is the fourth or fifth note in the scale/mode you are using.

[hibidy]

here's a great pentatonic lick to learn



same dude like 20 years later:

It's funny, I was in SUCH a rut. I mean, I was without any creativity or direction and these kinda perked me up a bit. Oh no, I can't do them at that speed, but it's still kinda fun looking around at his vids.

[rbarata]

Look at this one I've found. A small video that resumes most of this thread :

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/L ... r%20Scale/

[generalstargazer]

here's a great pentatonic lick to learn



same dude like 20 years later:

It's funny, I was in SUCH a rut. I mean, I was without any creativity or direction and these kinda perked me up a bit. Oh no, I can't do them at that speed, but it's still kinda fun looking around at his vids.

Yeah when I'm in a guitar playing rut, I look for random guitar lessons on youtube.

[Count_fuzzball]

Pity there's like five million tutorials on shredding guitar, but absolutely none that I can find on shredding keyboard.

I'd love to shred as fast as this guy:



Admittedly, he does do ascending/descending pentantonic shredding, but boy is it impressive.

[rbarata]

For instance the Cmajor scale has the following notes

C D E F G A B C

Each note of the scale has an associated chord. The notes that make up that chord are next to the chord name

Cmajor C E G
Dminor D F A
Eminor E G B
Fmajor F A C
Gmajor G B D
Aminor A C E
Bdimb7 B D F
Cmajor C E G

I think I already understood how to find the associated chords but I have a doubt. If you play the Cmajor chord, notes C E G are played in the 5th, 4th and 3rd strings. But if you play a Fmajor chord, notes F A C are played in 4th, 3rd and 2nd strings (and not in 5th, 4th and 3rd, as in C major chord).

How do you know which strings to play? Is there any rule for that?

[videzyrah]

Any minor or major chord can be played on any 3 consecutive strings (if your fingers can hold the shape.)

[kbaccki]

I think I already understood how to find the associated chords but I have a doubt. If you play the Cmajor chord, notes C E G are played in the 5th, 4th and 3rd strings. But if you play a Fmajor chord, notes F A C are played in 4th, 3rd and 2nd strings (and not in 5th, 4th and 3rd, as in C major chord).

How do you know which strings to play? Is there any rule for that?

Well... there are "rules" for playing triads across the fretboard, but that's not really how people learn to play chords on guitar. I guess you could say: understanding and visualizing triads (maj, min, dim, aug) and their inversions is important as part of mastery of the fretboard, but a.) a beginner does not start by trying to master the fretboard as a prerequisite to playing chords, and b.) mastery of the fretboard is not a requirement to start playing chords on guitar.

More specifically, beginners generally start with basic open chords and barre chords. Here's an image of some basic open chord diagrams: http://guitarlessonsbybrian.com/images/open_chords.gif

Let's take your basic E major open chord. The notes of the open E fingering played from string 6 to string 1 are: E B E G# B E (I V I III V I). Your basic open A major chord from string 5 to string 1 is: A E A C# E (I V I III V). Etc. The first 3 notes of open C chord happen to be the root position C major triad... same for G open chord... but when people play those chords they're generally not interested in just the 3 notes of the triad, but the whole chord.

Everybody who learns guitar learns an open E chord, open A chord, open C, etc., before they even understand what the notes mean. Later on, as music theory and fretboard knowledge become critical to really understanding the how's, why's, and what's of playing guitar beyond simple chord progressions and maybe some pentatonic riffs or whatever, then the "rules" come into play... what are scales, intervals, triads, inversions, extensions, etc. Then you might have an "aha!" moment when you notice that the first 3 notes of the C open chord form a root position triad... and if you slid those same 3 notes up to the 8th fret (ring finger on 5th string 8th fret, mid finger on 4th string 7th fret, index on 3rd string 5th fret) you'd have F A C. Then if you took the same fingering on frets 8, 7, 5 and moved it to strings 6,5,4 you'd be back to C E G. This is (eventually) important stuff to understand and be able to work with on the fretboard, but not critical to being able to play dozens of types of open/barre chords to get started playing and writing tunes...

[hibidy]

ooopsy

[hibidy]

you'll get really fast after watching this

=related

[rbarata]

Let's take your basic E major open chord. The notes of the open E fingering played from string 6 to string 1 are: E B E G# B E (I V I III V I). Your basic open A major chord from string 5 to string 1 is: A E A C# E (I V I III V). Etc. The first 3 notes of open C chord happen to be the root position C major triad... same for G open chord... but when people play those chords they're generally not interested in just the 3 notes of the triad, but the whole chord.

kbaccki, many thanks for the reply.

I already understood the basics of triads construction and how to classify their quality (major, minor, etc) but there are 2 things I don't understand in this quote: What are the roman numerals you used and why do you play only 5 strings in A major chord when you have played all 6 strings in E major chord?


I tried to understand this and in the process I learned that there are 3 types of triads:

- A Root position triad is a triad in which the root is on the bottom.

- A 1st inversion triad is a triad in which the 3rd is on the bottom.

- A 2nd inversion triad is a triad in which the 5th is on the bottom.

For example, in C major Ionian scale (the only one I've studied, so far), if you try to find the D chord, you'll get D F A (D minor) .
In this case, what is the first string to be played?

Thinking in terms of root position triads, the D note would be the 4th string, which is true. Then you try to find the F on the 3rd string but it's too far, in the 10th fret. So I thought that probably this is not a Root position triad but it doesn't fit in any of the other two triads categories (1st and 2nd inversions).
If we see the open D minor cord (http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ficheiro:D-Moll_offen.svg) and check each string note, starting by the 4th string, we get D A D F.
Clearly, this doesn't follow the same string order as in the open C chord.

If you start the chord by the 5th string, which is an A, maybe we were lucky to find that this is a 2nd inversion triad (and probably is, I don't know) but what is confusing me is the fact that the third triad note (F) is in the first string when it should be in the 3rd.

Can you explain this?

I'm sorry for asking for such hard things to explain by writing in a forum but I want to learn this.

Thanks

[rbarata]

Hello my friends

Since no one replied anymore, I had to look elsewhere.
I found the answer to my doubts which were caused by incorrect assumptions from my side.
So, if you want to find which strings you should play in your guitar to find the triads chords you should follow a rule which is....no rule at all!
In the case of D minor I was trying to find a triad based in the most commonly used D minor chord:

1st string - 1st fret
2nd string - 3rd fret
3rd string - 2nd fret
4th string - open

I was using the 4th string as the triad root note and then follow the order root/3rd/5th.
It happens that things doesn't have to follow any specific order. You simply have to find all the different possibilities in the fretboard and see what comes out of it.

So, if you forget the 4th string and play only the 3rd, 2nd and 1st you'll find that the chord notes are correct and in this order ADF.
The original order (which came from the C Ionian scale) was DFA. If we have ADF this means that the 5th is in the bottom (lower pitch): that's a 2nd inversion.

Working in the rest of the fretboard we can find this one:

4th string = 3rd fret
3rd string = 2nd fret
2nd string = 3rd fret

This gives you FAD. The 3rd is in the bottom: that's a 1st inversion.

Now, the Root triad is still missing. You just have to look a bit more and you'll find:

5th string = 5th fret
4th string = 3rd fret
3rd string = 2nd fret

This gives you DFA: the Root triad.

All these different possibilities (DFA / FAD / ADF) are called D minor chord.

So, there are no rules, except the ones that define the Root, 1st and 2nd inversions. All the rest, which strings to play, which fret,etc, you just have to find them and see in which category they will fall.
Flexibility here is the key word. Experiment, see what comes out of it, and use in your music what sounds better.
Eventually, if you work hard enough, maybe you'll memorize most of the chords for all notes.