Motif's,leads and melody

[evileye]

One thing i always struggle with getting good melody's and motifs
is there any guide lines to stick to when making these apart from the obvious sticking to the same key as the rest of your track
would love some help
thanks

[MadPsyance]

Hum or whistle something and then try to play/program it.

[soul_junkie]

Hum or whistle something and then try to play/program it.

This is along the lines of any advice I would give. For me (and alot of others I know) things like melodies & motif's are extremely organic. Apart from when a melody might be the initial idea (something I hum into my phone while waiting in the at the doctor) I usually just go with where I'm at right there and then. I know it sounds clichéd, but if you listen and feel, the music will usually tell you what to do next

[robogone]

I'd say don't worry about sticking to the same key as the rest of the track. Key changes are good for taking something somewhere else.

[HauntedWeather]

I'd say don't worry about sticking to the same key as the rest of the track. Key changes are good for taking something somewhere else.

So you think that the melody should be out of key?

Just try improvising over the rest of the track, once you have some feeling for what is working you can start making variations on that theme. Will the song have vocals? If so that might be a good place to start, then see what comes from there.

[robogone]

I'd say don't worry about sticking to the same key as the rest of the track. Key changes are good for taking something somewhere else.

So you think that the melody should be out of key?

If that works, yes. If it sounds dissonant maybe not, but if it doesn't why not?

[evileye]

thanks very much for the tips guys
i don't normally put vocals on my tracks maybe the odd spoken sample from a film
but that's about it
i was reading some were about melody construction and they suggested that the first part of the melody goes up the keyboard the rest of it tends to go down the keyboard
is this something thats well known or is it just a case of experimenting?

any input is much appreciated

[Jafo]

Prolly worth mentioning that the Beatles' first versions of songs tended to suck, and Beethoven would re-work a melody as dozen or more times before it sounded right. If revision was good enough for them, it's good enough for us. lol

[robogone]

i was reading some were about melody construction and they suggested that the first part of the melody goes up the keyboard the rest of it tends to go down the keyboard
is this something thats well known or is it just a case of experimenting

I've never heard of that before, but if you start sticking to 'rules' like that one you start to narrow down the options you have for writing melodies. If up works, use up - if down works, use down.

[evileye]

thanks once again
i do tend to fall into these habits of reading things and taking them as gospel
ok must remember no rules lol
thanks

[robogone]

The only rule I ever use is 'If it sounds good then it doesn't matter how I did it'

[vespers75]

I'd say don't worry about sticking to the same key as the rest of the track. Key changes are good for taking something somewhere else.

So you think that the melody should be out of key?

If that works, yes. If it sounds dissonant maybe not, but if it doesn't why not?

Exactly, and dissonance itself does indeed work in some ways, depending on the nature of what you're doing. And I agree with the "no rules" statement as well...entire genres have come about from creative musicians eschewing previously established rules and standards.

[robogone]

Definitely no rules about how to do something. I seem to remember that Paul McCartney came up with 'Blackbird' by putting his fingers in the wrong place when he was going to play a classical piece on guitar, then realized that he had found something new as a start point to writing a song.

[Goseba]

I know I come up with better melodies/chords progressions playing around on a hardware synth rather than working them out with a mouse in a piano roll.

[bhairav]

And I agree with the "no rules" statement as well...entire genres have come about from creative musicians eschewing previously established rules and standards.

However, stated like this it gets passed along as a misconception because it misses the essence - these musicians already knew the established 'rules' and use them as a guidepost to explore outside of. Without them you're just stabbing around randomly in the dark.

I had a jazz improv teacher who described this as "you can't play outside [the chord changes] if you don't know how to play inside." And its completely true - even if you have no formal training you have to have an ear/intuition for what works and what doesn't to use as reference.