Harmonizations Methods.

[ecsmix]

I was wondering your methods to harmonize a melody.

Example: vocal melody notes: B-F#-G#-E-C#, so I would use:

B F# G#m E C#7, easy method,since all melody notes would be the bass note of the chords,
I could use inversions so the melody notes could be on top of the chord.Like in B chord instead of B-Eb-F# would be
Eb-F#-B, B note is on top now.
I could use B7 as well using the same methods or 9-11 chords, doesn't change the logic of the method I already use it so I was wondering a use of diferent chords, maybe chords that doesn't have the melody note or whatever you think will sound good or whatever have been used on other songs.

What would you do differently?

What's more, can you do another chord progression to work with that melody and chord progression that you did before but for a different instrument, like piano and strings or guitar.
I was wondering about your methods and what you hear on other songs.

Thanks.

[Nystul]

You've given us just a five note sequence which forms a common pentatonic scale. We could certainly imagine any number of possibilities at this point, even as to what key this is in. I'll play along, but the rhythm of the melody is critical in trying to determine where and what chord changes would really be appropriate.

I can picture this being some kind of simple 2 or 4 measure melody that is going to loop back around some number of times and end with the B. In that case, I can picture the E and C# at the end being part of an F#7 chord. That would be the super old fashioned V7 to lead us back to I, which is B, which would thus be the chord I would choose to start with. So when the melody goes from B to F#, one easy option would be to stay with the B chord still. There are at this point a lot of possibilities for this G# I have left over. I've chosen to make it an E chord. Having made that choice, I'm going to go back to that F#, and instead of just a B chord, I'm going to make that a B7, because B is the dominant of E and it may make things more interesting to have this little chord change. So now I end up with a chord progression that goes: B->B7->E->F#7->(back to B). Depending on the rhythm and tempo of this melody, this could work (and if the E would fit better over the E chord instead of the F#7, obviously it would work there, or the chord change could even be made during that note). It might have a bit of a blues feel with that I7 chord. Even more of a blues feel if you make the E an E7.

What's more, can you do another chord progression to work with that melody and chord progression that you did before but for a different instrument, like piano and strings or guitar.

If you are arranging for multiple instruments, they are each playing a different role in the same chord progression. For instance in my example progression, when you get to the B7, maybe the bass player has the B locked down, so the piano player might focus on the D# and A. The guitar player might play the chord notes perhaps one at a time in some sort of melodic riff. And in the mean time you've got this slow vocal melody on the F#.

If you have a piano playing one chord and a guitar playing a completely different chord, the two combine into a more complicated chord which may sound very muddy or harsh.

Hopefully this helps a little.

[wrench45us]

not every melody note needs its own chord (though a friend tells me that's what the the Beatles thought when they started out and look what it did for them)

so I would probably follow along with the 2 chords advised above of Bmaj7 and F#7
you could slip a passing chord in with the G#m7

most simple folk/pop tunes manage to collect the primary melody notes in I IV and V and ii can substitute for IV and iii or vi can substitute for I

you can kind of see how that works by a sort of every other note pattern on the keyboard

it's actually rather disappointing when you find out how simply most songs are constructed

[diijay]

"it's actually rather disappointing when you find out how simply most songs are constructed"

What about a more jazzy,modern way as well.What would you do differently.
More complex ways of doing it.

@wrench45us,
"If you have a piano playing one chord and a guitar playing a completely different chord, the two combine into a more complicated chord which may sound very muddy or harsh."
I like all of explanations, but forget about the mixing issues,that's why we have an eq,reverb and panning I would like to know how to work with those more complicated chords you mentioned.Two or more instruments playing diferent chords that go well with eachother, forming a more complex harmony.

Like Nystul said(Beatles way) every note needs a chord and any different instrument needs to play a different chord and they must form a good harmony together.

Put any simple rhythm you want, 4x4, each note plays once every for bars, so you can use passing chords as well.

Really like to know this things as well.

[wrench45us]

well th emore complex way is

get one way down first to clearly state the theme

then you can open up the chapter on reharmonization and substitution and backfilling and try a few things
most theory books have a few chapters on these topics
what you want to do (at least to start) is keep the melody notes at the top of the range and reharmonize the underpinning chords -- it will usually mean getting familiar with related keys and/or inversions
or it could be as simple as adding some color notes like 7ths 9ths 11ths

what you might consider is many books have reworkings of 'rhythm changes' or you may be able to find quite a few online. A few books may have several and use it to illustrate the various style and techniques used over time to modify the original "I got Rhythm' -- I find the exercise works best with familiar material.

[diijay]

"then you can open up the chapter on reharmonization and substitution and backfilling and try a few things
most theory books have a few chapters on these topics
what you want to do (at least to start) is keep the melody notes at the top of the range and reharmonize the underpinning chords -- it will usually mean getting familiar with related keys and/or inversions
or it could be as simple as adding some color notes like 7ths 9ths 11ths "

Those technics ecsmix already said on his post, we are looking for different ways of doing it.

"A few books may have several and use it to illustrate the various style and techniques used over time to modify the original "I got Rhythm' -- I find the exercise works best with familiar material."

I would like to read more stuff like that, which book?
However I don't read music and usually those books only reharmonize an existing chord sequence with substitutions and what I am looking for is how to use more instruments playing different chords at the same time and working together.
Creating a more complex harmony.
That's why I ask questions here so you guys can explain with words rather than notation(found on books).

[wrench45us]

'Harmonic Language of Jazz Standards'

http://www.outsideshore.com/school/music/harmonic/

[Jafo]

Typically you'll have the last chord of a phrase be the tonic, although a lot of people opt to end with the dominant and begin with the tonic. (With substitutions, yadda yadda.) You've got E Major pentatonic or c# minor pentatonic -- probably the latter, since it's also common to end on the tonic note.

Doing this sort of thing, will make your sequence of notes a progression -- the chords and melody lead somewhere (they progress to the tonic). This may or may not be what you want! There are a lot of good reasons to avoid doing so.

[diijay]

Crazy idea here....what about substitutions, but not the way you think of...
Tritone subs and all other jazz subs stuff, but instead of actually substituing, you would apply this to a brand new instrument playing at the same time with the original chord progression by the piano.

melody playing: B F# G# E C#
piano playing: B F# G#m E C#7
B major scale: I V VI IV II (Piano chord progression), now for the next instruments, like a violin or trumpet or guitar you would use the substitution technics that will play together with the existing piano chord progression.

I never read anything like this, just thought about it, does it work?

Thanks.

[Nystul]

Not every melody note needs a chord. Multiple melody notes may be contained within the same chord. And some melody notes may be passing tones which don't need to fit with the chord under them at all. We don't have enough information about this melody to really get into that issue.

Doing this sort of thing, will make your sequence of notes a progression -- the chords and melody lead somewhere (they progress to the tonic). This may or may not be what you want! There are a lot of good reasons to avoid doing so.

That's a good point. If this is a dance loop, maybe something like Bm7 (under the B and F#) and C#m7 (under G#, E, C#) and you are done.

[jcrisman]

I was wondering your methods to harmonize a melody.

Example: vocal melody notes: B-F#-G#-E-C#, so I would use:

B F# G#m E C#7, easy method,since all melody notes would be the bass note of the chords,
I could use inversions so the melody notes could be on top of the chord.Like in B chord instead of B-Eb-F# would be
Eb-F#-B, B note is on top now.
I could use B7 as well using the same methods or 9-11 chords, doesn't change the logic of the method I already use it so I was wondering a use of diferent chords, maybe chords that doesn't have the melody note or whatever you think will sound good or whatever have been used on other songs.

What would you do differently?

What's more, can you do another chord progression to work with that melody and chord progression that you did before but for a different instrument, like piano and strings or guitar.
I was wondering about your methods and what you hear on other songs.

Thanks.

As others have indicated the notes form a E major pentatonic (C# pentatonic minor) scale, and thus the harmonic choices are wide open. Those five notes also form an E6add9 chord.

If you used those notes as a bass line as well, then you could have a lot of fun creating a hypnotic groove while playing around with different keys and different chord choices within a key.

As the five notes also contain an E major triad and a C# minor triad--if I wished to remain in diatonic mode--I could freely use chords from E Major, E Lydian, E Mixolydian--or C# Natural Minor (Aeolian), C# Dorian, C# Phrygian while watching out for any half step stacking that may create unwanted dissonance. (This approach may be a typical guitar player approach since one would be repeating finger patterns on different areas of the guitar neck.)

Also suspended chords (Esus2, F#sus2, F#sus4, Bsus2, Bsus4, C#sus4) too could be fun since they could be used to maintain an ambiguous key center.

Anyway, as it has been said, there are nearly infinite ways one could put harmony to those notes.

[diijay]

Hey jcrisman thank you very much for you explanation, I liked very much and thank you everybody for the help.

I REALLY REALLY would like to hear and see your example in midi to fully understand what you meant by that.

Specially the hypnotic groove part.
In case you don;t have the time to do it, can you please point me some songs that illustrate what you meant by that, Thanks.

[diijay]

That's a good point. If this is a dance loop, maybe something like Bm7 (under the B and F#) and C#m7 (under G#, E, C#) and you are done.

That's good, no problem but I am looking for different approaches, instead of being a dance loop, think about a jazz tune, what unexpected chords you guys would use?
Specially using chords that doesn't have the melody note in it and will sound good and unexpected.

[rp314]

it's actually rather disappointing when you find out how simply most songs are constructed

Apologies to the OP if one digresses a bit but that process can also lead to a fuller appreciation of real compositional talent, no?

I remember studying for a while (sometime during the 20th century ) with a foreigner who expressed himself in somewhat peculiar ways, perhaps since English was not his native tongue. Anyway, he would sometimes say things like "You kids need to learn what good music looks like" (mostly referring to studying notation, sight reading, etc.) but he would also sometimes say "You need to learn how good music sounds" , by which I think he was getting at the challenge of actually putting a good piece of music together.

In listening to any of the greats, one often is amazed at how they can take a silly little idea and run with it. Mozart's and Beethoven's simple motives, Debussy's use of the whole-tone and other "exotic" scales, and so on.

I recall once hearing German/Argentine composer Mauricio Kagel speaking of a composition of his commemorating Beethoven's 150th (or whatever it was) explaining that the great composer is "in between" the themes that most listeners remember or whistle after leaving the auditorium.

So, many can come up with a nice tune and most can figure out the simple methods of putting it all together, but for some of us the academic endeavor leads to a profound appreciation for those who have a special sense of how to turn it all into something magical.

[jcrisman]

Hey jcrisman thank you very much for you explanation, I liked very much and thank you everybody for the help.

I REALLY REALLY would like to hear and see your example in midi to fully understand what you meant by that.

Specially the hypnotic groove part.
In case you don;t have the time to do it, can you please point me some songs that illustrate what you meant by that, Thanks.

Hypnotic Groove
It would take some time for me to get a MIDI example, but to get a hypnotic groove one could accomplish this by playing a repeating four or eight bar syncopated drum or drum/bass pattern throughout the composition--for example, The Beatles "Tomorrow Never Knows"; Happy Monday's "Kinky Afro"; The Stone Roses "Fools Gold"; or The Charlatans "Weirdo" come immediately to mind. Drone notes and repetitive bass riffs under changing chords also can facilitate the hypo groove.

Usually hypnotic grooves tend to be slow to moderate tempo--though it's the repetitiveness of the groove that generally gives the song a hypnotic feel--and the tempo usually remains constant throughout the song.

E6add9
As far as harmonics, the E6add9 chord is simply all five notes of the E pentatonic major scale played as a single chord. A funk or R&B guitarist/organist might play a syncopated rhythm using only this chord for several measures. Someone going more textural might play it as a repeating arpeggio spanning several measures.

Diatonic Harmony
Note that the major scale chord progression has three major chords (I-IV-V) and three minor chords (vi-ii-iii). The vi chord is the relative minor chord of the I major chord.

Likewise the natural minor scale also has three major chords (III-VI-VII) and three minor chords (i-iv-v)



Thus the E major chord can be played as:
I chord in E major (or the III chord in C# natural minor)
IV chord in B Major (or the VI chord in G# natural minor)
V chord in A Major (or the VII chord in F# natural minor)

C# minor can likewise serve as:
vi chord in E Major (or the root chord in C# natural minor)
ii chord in B Major (or the iv chord in G# Natural Minor)
iii chord in A Major (or the v chord in F# Natural Minor)

Thus if you wished to stay within diatonic harmony, you could easily select one of the above keys--or select a series of chords from more than one mode if you wish to have key changes or pivot chords in your song.

In a nutshell...
Diatonic modes, pentatonic scales, and chord progressions are only a guideline. It is your choice to adhere to or deviate from these "rules" as your composition and your creativity necessitates. Don't be afraid to "break the rules" if it improves your song.