Drum Masters & OWD Community Support Thread

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

i understand what you are saying about the overheads but if i were paying for the studio time i wouldn't compromise ....not if it had such an impact as it does......i realise that trying to record in a vacuum and discarding all extraneous noises is not a reflection on reality but i would like to get as close to it as possible...i want the sound of the piece and not the interpretation of the room or the mic....or at least as little as possible

but anyway

i'll give your suggestion a try...i just assumed that the mixer volumes and instrument volumes were one and the same....you don't need to go to any extra trouble to write this in....if this works , it works

thanks

The upcoming manuals for STm and MT will explain this, so sorry you guys have to fly solo until that arrives - it is coming soon. But luckily I am here to be able to tell you things like that myself.

In the studio - even if you're paying - you would still have to compromise. But, what I mean is, to do what you want to do some people in the studio have just overdubbed cymbals separately. I think Stewart Copeland may have done that. It's rare I think but when people wanted a certain sound they found a way to do it... through compromises and experimentation. The same and more can be done in the virtual world with samples and that is why we made the NEW Drum Masters 2 (as opposed to DM1) have the ability to have discrete mic mixing PER kit piece. The output mixer is more like a mix buss. So you can mix at BOTH places and really tailor the kit EXACTLY how you want... and of course it doesn't have to reflect reality at all! Each person should just tweak it to their liking and in some ways you can actually end up with a kit sounding much BETTER than one could in a real studio drum session.

stewart copeland, eh ??..so i'm in good company

if one were using direct cymbal mics, is it not possible to gate them to stop bleed

good news about the manuals.....i'm sure there are many thing to learn about this to tailor it to our likes....so many good samples it should be impossible not to get quite a few excellent kits out of this

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

cheers squids

the discrete mixing of the kit pieces to (or not to( the overheads worked oerfectly

and also managed to assign the OWD snare i wanted

thanks again

[Squids]

Each person's tastes are different. That is one of the reasons it is great to have such a variety of kits and kit pieces on hand. For some people, like myself, I find a use for almost every single one of them at one time or another. But at the same time I too need a variety to choose from per project or even per song. Both myself and others will have a lot of cool tips and tricks to share so everyone can learn how to customize these kits to suit their needs. Many options to experiment with.

[timyork]

if one were using direct cymbal mics, is it not possible to gate them to stop bleed

A cymbal has too much sustain for that to work. The gate would have to shut once the cymbal's sustain had finished otherwise you wouldn't hear all the cymbal. Gates are only effective on shorter sounds like snares kicks and toms. Because cymbals are more or less going all the time there's no or very little silence in between the sound in which to operate the gate. That's why Stewart Copeland (and others) sometimes overdubs cymbals.

There's no way to effectively avoid spill from other drums going into the cymbal mics, which is why it's mostly pointless having separate mics on the cymbals - ie when you adjust their volume/eq etc the other pieces of the kit that bleed into the cymbal mics are also effected by these adjustments.

[duojet]

Hi, I may be missing something, but this does not sound like the stereo premier kit. It sounds like a different set of drums (more like the gretsch). Isn't this supposed to be the MT version of the stereo premier kit dry and ambient?

Yes, it is the same kit. But this is the multitrack version. The Dry and Ambient were just two different mixes (blends of mics from the multitrack kit) and then combined into stereo kit pieces.

Thanks. What I'm saying is that the Premier MT kit sounds nothing like the premier Stm kit. The premier mt sounds more like the gretsch. i think there is still a mixup.

No there isn't. The STm kits were resampled FROM that very NDV Premier MT kit. But with certain mix settings for a more direct vs. ambient sound - possibly some tuning differences but it is the same kit. Really. That is the source of those two kits.

Is the snare the same? It sounds completely different, tuning and everything.

[Squids]

Hi, I may be missing something, but this does not sound like the stereo premier kit. It sounds like a different set of drums (more like the gretsch). Isn't this supposed to be the MT version of the stereo premier kit dry and ambient?

Yes, it is the same kit. But this is the multitrack version. The Dry and Ambient were just two different mixes (blends of mics from the multitrack kit) and then combined into stereo kit pieces.

Thanks. What I'm saying is that the Premier MT kit sounds nothing like the premier Stm kit. The premier mt sounds more like the gretsch. i think there is still a mixup.

No there isn't. The STm kits were resampled FROM that very NDV Premier MT kit. But with certain mix settings for a more direct vs. ambient sound - possibly some tuning differences but it is the same kit. Really. That is the source of those two kits.

Is the snare the same? It sounds completely different, tuning and everything.

It is that same NDV Premier Multitrack kit resampled to stereo, with the same snare and everything. It may have its own mix and possibly tuning adjustment although I don't think so. But the samples are from the multitrack version as I said.

[bambam]

The upcoming manuals for STm and MT will explain this, so sorry you guys have to fly solo until that arrives - it is coming soon. But luckily I am here to be able to tell you things like that myself.

Hey Squids, really looking forward to those manuals. The euphoria of the group buy has given way to long, lost nights of frustration trying to figure this stuff out. People are very helpful in the forum but some of us guitar dinosaurs who are not midi/kontakt-savvy might need additional guidance

[timyork]

Any news of the forthcoming Danny Gottlieb cymbal kit and the Stewart Copeland kit with octabans?

What's the mic arrangement for the Danny Gottlieb cymbals? eg Spot mics, overheads?

Will the Stewart Copeland kit + octabans be available separately? I've been wanting to get some sampled octabans for ages - but close mic'd as well as OVs and/or rooms.

What's the mic arrangement for the octabans?

(Did I recall hearing that Mike Portnoy's were recorded by sticking SM57s or somesuch about half way up the tube..?)

[Squids]

Gottlieb's kit is in Multitrack and Stereo/Multichannel. But, ironically that kit didn't have directs for toms which is rare but we were actually sampling it more for his cymbal collection and it had a cool gritty sort of jazz sound so we released it like that. We're actually going to do a new kit with him this year as well and releasing his MASSIVE cymbal collection which only took us 5 years...

The current "Copeland-style" kit is really a mix of the Copeland Signature Tama Snare and a Tama kit that is close (Star Classic) and Octobans that are direct (but there are no overheard and room because it is part of the Signature Kit series which is just STm - stereo/multichannel with no mic mixing). There IS however the ability to use convolution room ambience though which will get you most of what you might need for dry to ambient (especially since the octos are quite dry to begin with).

Not available on its own but the upgrade from the Group Buy to get that title which is Signature Kits Vol. 2 (available on pre-order TODAY in fact and digital delivery starting in a week or two from now) is only $99. So to get that plus the Bonham "hands" kit (like Moby Dick) is really worth it.

However, if you're a fan of albums like Ghost in the Machine and Synchronicity we're doing a collection of drums with producer/engineer Hugh Padgham who recorded them as well as Genesis albums. We've already done a faithful "In the Air Tonight" with the infamous "Ball & Biscuit" and "I Don't Care Anymore" (with the mics inside the tube) both recorded at Genesis' studio called The Farm where they have a highly reflective "Stone Room". Then some time this year we'll be sampling a few Police-style kits as well... fun stuff. Won't be out for another year though but at least you know we don't rest.

[timyork]

Thanks Squids - a couple more questions if I may.

How many octos were sampled and what sizes were they? Are their any audio demos?

Do you have a link to the Signature kits vol 2 deal?

[Squids]

Thanks Squids - a couple more questions if I may.

How many octos were sampled and what sizes were they? Are their any audio demos?

Do you have a link to the Signature kits vol 2 deal?

Almost have that link. In a little bit we'll have it.

The Octos I sampled... hmmm good question. I have to see if I wrote down the sizes. It was a set of a bunch of them - similar to SC's but I have to dig through my notes as I actually sampled that quite a while ago. I think it was 4 or 5 of them.

[soulata]

A bit OT: It'll be nice to see Ken Scott's collection vs NI Abbey Road deathmach

btw, I think some kits sound from the last GB just as good as the ones NI sells. Now it's really more about what's appropriate for the song than not having enough quality kits to choose from.

k

[timyork]

Were they Tama ones?

If so Tama have three different sets available:

A pair of small ones.
Four smaller ones.
Four larger ones.

The details and photos are right here on Tama's site: http://www.tamadrum.co.jp/world/distrib ... me_uk.html

But actually Stewart Copeland's ones were even longer (he had them custom built from what I understand).

Do you have any audio demos of the sampled octos?

[tropicalontour]

Does anybody know if the promised second and final patch update went out? I can't see anything different on my downloads page and Squids mentioned there would be one about this time.

EDIT: Wait, page 31 of this thread said there was an update in the support area of sonicreality.com. Tried to register on this site, but no confirmation email has yet appeared. I guess I can wait. I don't fancy downloading the entire premier NDV kit again if I can avoid it.

[DarkStar]

Yep, its there (on the Downloads page, not the Support page):

Ultimate Studio Drums Group Buy NDV Premr MT Kit fix
» 2.2 MiB - 46 hits - January 18, 2010
This is an Update to this Drum Kit. Download it if you participated to the Group Buy

Initially I had problems registering at SR too - I was using a relatively non-standard eMail address format. You could raise an eSoundz Support Ticket.

For info, the other downloads are:
-- the Infinite library Installer updates
-- the OWD Library Installer updates
-- Kontakt Player 3.5