Various chord progressions that I don't understand

[neueliteratur]

Hi folks,

As some of you might know, I'm a music theory newbie.

Lately, I've been analyzing various songs, and I have a few passages that I cannot explain with the knowledge that I have.

Hopefully you guys can help me out.

1.

The song "A Ra" is in Dm.

There, I see passages like:

E7 Em7

D7 Dm7.

First of all, how can II be m7 and not halfdim?

But more importantly, how do I explain those 7th chords?

2.

"Mahjong" is in Fm.

Its bridge goes like this:

D7 Eb-7 Ab7 Dbmaj7 Db-7 Gb7.

I don't understand what's going on in that part.

3.

This one is a random chord progression my friend gave to me.

C- G7 C- F-7 E-7 A7
Ahalfdim D7 Gmaj7 Gaug C#halfdim F#7

It's definitely I V I IV in the beginning,

but from A7, it looks obscure to me.

4.

"O Grande Amor" was relatively clear to me, but two chords had to be left unexplained.

It's in Am.

A-7 E7 G-7 C7...

What is G-7 doing in there?

D-7 G7 Cmaj7 Fmaj7
Bbmaj7 Bbmaj7 Bhalfdim E7

How would you explain the Bbmaj7?

If it were a 7th chord, it would be E7sub, but here..

5.

"O Ovo" was clear too, but one chord got on my newbie nerves:

The song is in B.

E7 B7 E7 B7
E7 B7 E7 A B7

How do you explain that Amaj chord?

Is it like, in "Freddie Freeloader", when the first round ends in Ab7?

6.

"Night and Day" is in C.

Everything OK for me except for the "F#halfdim".

Let me put it in context:

Dhalfdim G7 Cmaj7
F#halfdim F-7 E-7 D#dim

7.

This one is similar, in that it has to do with the halfdim chord.

It's a 12 bar blues, but the 12th bar is Ihalfdim.

How to explain this?

===

Sorry for the massive questionnaire.

[VicDiesel]

1.

The song "A Ra" is in Dm.

There, I see passages like:

E7 Em7

D7 Dm7.

First of all, how can II be m7 and not halfdim?

But more importantly, how do I explain those 7th chords?

Is that really how the song goes? One measure E7, then one measure Em7, then D7, then Dm7? What comes after that?

There is enough music that is in major but then has a section in minor. (Can't think of a title, but it happens.) So the immediate shift of major to the same chord in minor is not unheard-of. There's not a lot of theoretical justification I can think of. It's more "why the hell not?".

Of course, you can continue in a way that makes it logical. For instance, the song "Laura" goes Am-D-G Gm-C-F Fm-Bb et cetera. So there is a G-Gm sequence there, that gets its justification from what comes before and after it.

Do you have any sort of link to these songs you're talking about? Some of the chords look fairly random to me.

Oh, about your question: "First of all, how can II be m7 and not halfdim?". I don't see a "II" in your chords. Which chord are you talking about? And the only half-dim chord in a major scale is the VII, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Victor.

[someone called simon]

Sorry I don't have detailed answers for you here, and yes it would be helpful to hear the context...

But it's always good to remember that while theory can explain what's going on, or give it some structure etc, the music is not 'defined' by theory. You can do anything you want. Any chord after any other. You can throw a bunch of strange chords together for no other reason than that the combination appeals to you. It may not make much sense as a progression. You can do this with a thorough knowledge of theory, or with no knowledge at all.

You just do it because it appeals, sonically. There's not much right or wrong involved. I guess you could say if you're going for a certain genre or predefined style eg, a blues progression, or a romantic ballad, some progressions could be ill-advised out of an ignorance of the style or of theory, but if that's not what you're doing, right or wrong doesn't really factor into it.

[Ogg Vorbis]

In general it's hard to find tunes that simply "behave properly" and "stay put" in one key. When they do, it sounds kinda boring.

A lot of jazz or pop tunes have little cadences which form a phrase. They come to a resting spot in a new temporary key.

Of course, the chords wouldn't make sense in one key so you have to understand these little modulations that breath life into music.

Vic was talking about "Laura" which is such a beautiful tune. He shows you the changes like this: Am-D-G Gm-C-F Fm-Bb-Ebmaj9 (not sure about that last chord).

Each three chord thing is a little cadence in a separate key. The first one is a 2-5-1 cadence in the temporary key of G. The next set is a 2-5-1 in F. The next one is a 2-5-1 in Eb.

I continue to use the classic 2-5-1 cadence as a model but there are plenty of other ones. But you get the idea...the tonality doesn't just sit there in one key. It modulates around.

Your example "Mahjong" shows this: D7 Eb-7 Ab7 Dbmaj7 Db-7 Gb7. Makes perfect sense because the first three chords seem to imply a chromatic variation on a 2-5-1 in the key of Ab. Ab is the relative major of the original key of Fm.

Then it seems to set up another 2-5-1. Is the next chord after Gb7 Bmaj7???

Chromaticism is the spice o' life. Chromatic means "color" which is like in painting where you use color to add shading and nuance to a scene.

Remember, that a "II" in the original key that seems so confusing just might be a "I" in a temporary key!

[wrench45us]

first off, as it was explained to me, it's not exactly 'fair' to cut a progression when it wanders, because the point always seesm to be where it's headed or how it manages to head back, rather than where it meanders

second it's pretty common device to pivot from major to minor. the Beatles were very good at this in certain ballad forms. And you have to think those boyts may not have known every extended chord, but they knew quite a few and made excellent use of them

thirdly analysis is after the fact -- a lot of analysis is to make sense of something we like and/or bothers us. It's almost certain that if you see soemthing in one piece of music it will show up again somewhere else. One reason for analysys is as a device to help recall a given way of moving

fact is just a few shared notes (or not) and one can wander off at will; it's just a matter of establishing a context

[jopy]

I have a few thoughts about Night and Day.

The f# in there between C major and F minor could be a passing chord. C major and F minor share no notes in common, so it should sound like a very distant and abrupt modulation, but throw the F# in there (from the G in the C major) as a passing note to that F in F minor and it sounds pretty smooth (in part because you're essentially moving everything but the C down a 1/2 step).

In addition, F# diminished shares notes in common with Calt7, which might help get us into F smoothly as well.

I don't know, those are a few reasons it might work, but it definitely does sound pretty smooth. I bet Gershwin went by ear--he wanted to move down chromatically into that D minor-G7-C cadence that ends the 8 bar section, and found that the F#diminished got him there with a relatively logically sounding way.

[Bobbotov]

I am a little confused. Night and Day is by Cole Porter and I do no see any F# diminished chords in the song.

http://www.theguitarguy.com/nightand.htm

[jopy]

I am a little confused. Night and Day is by Cole Porter and I do no see any F# diminished chords in the song.

http://www.theguitarguy.com/nightand.htm

the song is usually played in C rather than D, so the chord you'd be looking for is an G# half diminished (sorry, I should have said 1/2 dim, not diminished). Still, this is quite a different set of changes than you'd usually see. I imagine this is the version the OP was talking about, from the Real Book:

http://www.saxuet.qc.ca/TheSaxyPage/Rea ... %20Day.jpg

[VicDiesel]

The f# in there between C major and F minor could be a passing chord. C major and F minor share no notes in common, so it should sound like a very distant and abrupt modulation,

In jazz charts, you can often exchange a chord and the one a tritone away. So

F#-F-E-Eb-D

has the same effect as

F#-B-E-A-D

For instance, an F 7 5b is the same (enharmonically) as B 7 5b, but throw in enough alterations and other chord notes and you can fudge quite a bit. So that explains why the F# is a great way to start a very logical sequence of chords.

As my theory teacher said "You're allowed one sideways jump, then you should follow the circle of fifths for a while".

Victor.

[jopy]

As my theory teacher said "You're allowed one sideways jump, then you should follow the circle of fifths for a while".

Best thing i've heard all day.

[wrench45us]

i think it's fairly safe to make an initial assumption of tritone when 3 chords line up half step apart

a lot of bebop, esp Bud Powell, would state a phrase and then state the same phrase 1/2 step higher -- I'm not sure that's covered in any theory book non-specific to bebop

my sense is this sort of thing along with a hatful of dim chords show up in a lot of standards during transitional passages

[psenior]

You are getting a lot of good answers. My comments are as follows:
A lot of chord charts have mistakes in them. I don't think there are any mistakes in the stuff you posted. I played through all of them and they sound good.
Stop thinking songs stay in one key; they don't. Ogg Vorbis has the right idea. I care more about what key changes the little cadences are implying in certain spots during the song.
Song #1:
You have to realize that a lot of jazz musicians will substitute a m7 for a 7. It does give a slightly more modern sound to the music. I personally might consider that E7 to really have a Bb in the bass, which I would keep for the Em7. That sounds a little nicer to my ears and makes more sense as a kind of a fun harmonic movement to play. I'd do the same thing over the D7 to Dm7.
You should start to take the attitude that you can do just about whatever you want over a dominant chord as long as you are able to resolve it strongly to the tonic eventually. There are best practices, however. Too many to discuss here in detail.
Song #2:
The bridge is always different. It's obviously not in Fm. I would just analyze it as V of A, ii-V-I of Db, ii-V of B.
Song #3:
Starting from the Am7b5, its iim7b5-V7-Imaj7, Iaug, iim7b5-V7
That G augmented chord I consider it to have a dominant function.
Song #4:
Gm7 is just the ii chord to the C7 which is the V7 chord.
Bbmaj7, if it's not a mistake, I think they were just getting a little happy cycling around the circle of fifths and did it maybe once too many times for most people's tastes.
Song #5:
Are you sure it's in B? The chord changes suggest a blues in E. A would be perfectly fine in E.
I don't think this tune is like Freddy Freeloader, that song is a modal tune. This song seems to be a blues. I'm not familiar with this tune. I did a quick Google of it and I'm guessing it might be a bossa.
Song #6:
You can find a very detailed analysis of this tune at the following link:
http://www.jazzstandards.com/compositio ... andday.htm
He specifically comments about that section of the song.
Song #7:
Start thinking of half diminished chords as a minor chord with the 6th in the bass. For example, Cm7b5 is the same as Ebm6. When I think of it this way, I think of that Ebm6 as being part of either an Ab9 chord or D7b9#5 chord. Maybe you would like one of these chord substitions better?

[bernhardtjeff]

4.

"O Grande Amor" was relatively clear to me, but two chords had to be left unexplained.

It's in Am.

A-7 E7 G-7 C7...

What is G-7 doing in there?

D-7 G7 Cmaj7 Fmaj7
Bbmaj7 Bbmaj7 Bhalfdim E7

How would you explain the Bbmaj7?

If it were a 7th chord, it would be E7sub, but here..

This is the only one I'm completely familiar with off the top of my head. Some versions have that E7 as an E7/G#, so there's downward chromatic movement in the bass to go down to G next, so why not just put a ii-V7 there? Hehe... which brings me to my next point...

The pull of a ii-V7 is so strong that you can resolve it to basically ANYTHING and it will sound decent. Dave Liebman discusses this in his well-known book, "A Chromatic Approach to Jazz Harmony." Of course, resolving to some tonics sounds better than others, but the idea is the same: our ears are so programmed to treat a I chord as sounding resolved after a ii-V7 that pretty much anything will work to varying degrees.

With the second part of that song you listed... there's a common vamp to get to a tonic that, if the tonic were Bb, for example, would go D7 G7 C7 F7 Bb. It's of course related to the iii-VI7-ii-V7 that's also all over jazz, so perhaps that second part you listed is just another variation.

But like someone else said, we really need to see these songs in their entirety to make sense of them.

[sammy24]

A lot of Wayne Shorter's music is considered to be modal jazz rather than the strict II-V-I you are used to. In modal jazz, you can't really analyze the chords like, oh, this is a IImin7, a IV, a V7. The key can often change with every chord. The chord progression is not "functional harmony".

The chord progressions that are confusing you definitely have chords that are not in the key of the key signature. II-V-I music is also constantly changing keys. Often the melody is all in one key, because that makes it easier to sing, but even the main melody changes key often.

It took me a lot of time to understand this better. I am similar to you, I want to be able to nail everything down and understand exactly what is going on--my advice to you is this: First, make sure you know your 1)secondary dominants 2)tritone substitutions 3)Modal Interchange chords (borrowing chords from other parallel key centers, like using Abmaj7 in a chord progression in the key of C. This would be the bVI maj7, being borrowed from the parallel key of Cmin.)
A great book for this is this one: http://www.amazon.com/Chord-Scale-Theor ... B000M7B65O

If you go through this book carefully, you'll know a ton more about tonal harmony.

But much of shorter's music mixes this tonal harmony with non-functional or modal harmony. I can't explain it in a few lines in a thread like this : ). PM me for some more info, if u want.

[tapper mike]

No harmony is non functional. All harmony serves a function. If you think about harmonic motion as being key centric then what is modulation for? You can use transitive modulations which can step into and out of diatonic structures such as whole tone. Or As McCoy Tyner did using various SUS chord inversions and up
a minor third then up another minor third (bV sub)
Begin your journey here

http://www.modaljazz.com/what.html