So many new strings libraries, so little time.

[skank]

...It is the reason why I have pretty much postponed my songwriting career. I am basically just sitting here waiting for these things to be developed and released. So that humble musicians like myself will not need to dispense with my dignity. My music is something I want to be proud of. I cannot achieve that with silly sample libraries that can not do justice to the instrument. Now, I could be waiting another 2 years. But why would that bother me? I've been already waiting 5+ years for realistic instruments.
Ben

Hey - not questioning your decision, but that is sad to hear, from another muso. Anyway I hope for your creativity's sake these things comes along soon. Admittedly there are so many areas in my view for improvement in sample / vst and pro audio development generally but we're a long way from where we were imho.

I'm also waiting for what Mokafix Audio will bring to the table. I know he has released BlueReeds and GlueReeds and they sound amazing, especially considering the options for changing the sound. He has also released some effects, which also sound great.

+1

[sirbellog]

It is the reason why I have pretty much postponed my songwriting career. I am basically just sitting here waiting for these things to be developed and released. So that humble musicians like myself will not need to dispense with my dignity. My music is something I want to be proud of. I cannot achieve that with silly sample libraries that can not do justice to the instrument. Now, I could be waiting another 2 years. But why would that bother me? I've been already waiting 5+ years for realistic instruments.
Ben

I cannot follow you there : I heard some much astounding music those past years, made with today's tools by skilled and inspired people that it's just impossible for me to buy this kind of speech.
And I don't even talk about the top demo makers who use $$$ libraries. I indeed also heard a lot of great, inventive, and even would I dare say, authentic sounding stuff, made with those modest libraries that everyone and his dog can afford.

Conversely, I also heard a lot of lame, sterile, and unpleasant music made with real instruments -and sometimes good, pricy, or "vintage" ones-, but in the hands of people with no talent and or inspiration.

So saying that it's better to stop a "songwriter carrer" just to wait for the right tools to appear sounds to me unrealistic, and improductive. Or it may also show a wrong choice on your side : maybe you should forget the vst world and invest into a "traditional" studio, with "traditional" instruments.

I would even add that the folling part :" My music is something I want to be proud of. I cannot achieve that with silly sample libraries that can not do justice to the instrument" sounds to me a bit contemptuous, and disrespectful for the "standard guys" who currently do compose music with the "available silly stuff" and yet manage to please our ears and mind.

[Ben H]

sirbellog, good post.

benjaminid, I'd like to challenge your assumptions that the public can hear all those "imperfections" from using "silly sample libraries..." because MOST of them actuallly can't.

Lastly, there is the saying about a bad tradesman blaming the tools... I'm not having a go at you. I'm just suggesting that perhaps learning to use the tools you do have is more productive than sitting around waiting for the ones that you do not!

[Lunatique]

benjamind - It seems your stance is a bit melodramatic? Even a decade or more ago when composers were using laughably limited hardware samplers running far more primitive orchestral libraries like the roland series or the original Miroslav, it did not stop them from turning out some very compelling and authentic sounding orchestral scores for film/TV/video games. To say that the far more advanced libraries today will somehow cause you to dispense with your dignity...that just sounds really strange to me.

[standalone]

I'm always under the impression that benjamind is trying to convince himself, not us.

Man, you need to start composing again ASAP, no matter what instruments you use. Everyone has to overcome disappointment once in a while, and the only way is fighting, not waiting.

We are expressing ourselves through music, not trying to win a gold medal. Just relax and begin again.

[vespers75]

We are expressing ourselves through music, not trying to win a gold medal. Just relax and begin again.

great post

[skank]

OK, I think benjamind probably gets it now. I hope he has been prompted to at least reconsider his career plans after some of these posts.

Now back to the topic...

[jancivil]

I think the reason for so many libraries is just a result of progress and technology.

Computers are now getting to the point where legitimate string libraries can be sustained. Sure, there are great libraries that have been out for years. But not with the playability and extensiveness of libraries like LASS and others.

The problem in the past has been transitions. You just haven't been able to, as of yet, synthesize the right sounding transitions between notes. So now that 64 bit is coming along and computers are more powerful, libraries are starting to contain full compliments of legato recordings from every note to every other note on each string. When you add various release samples, glissando, portamento, etc., the library size jumps up BIG time.

Devs are starting to figure out what is missing, and what has been missing was a good compliment of legitimate, life-like, playable string libraries. And with libraries like LASS, they are starting to realize that you need more than a couple of violin section patches. Full section patches can only take you so far and work in certain styles of music.

These are just a couple of different things that come to mind. I do think that you are seeing many libraries at once because people WANT strings. They are incredibly hard to emulate properly, and just as with any instrument, there are so many different sounds you can have between different manufacturers of the instruments.

I don't think the market will saturate. Strings are like pianos; you can never have enough, IMO. How many piano libraries are out there now? HUUUUGE libraries even. And pianos are much easier to get sounding realistic than strings(still come complications, but not as hard). But people still want more and better pianos. I think the same will happen with strings.

I'm looking forward to whatever Sample Modeling comes up with, as well as WIVI strings.

Brent

Have you worked with samplemodeling yet? OMG is it hard to do. I put if off for months with this fear, which was not an irrational one at all it turns out. You HAVE to create a performance with their engine and a whole bunch of controllers, or it's just a body of trumpet sound. That 'body of sound' is defined by CC11 values and then basically sculpted from that with a host of CCs. I am very very *very* glad I got a breath controller for it. Drawing in enough values with a line or pencil in Cubase ain't gonna cut it here. No joke.

OTOH!!! VSL, the dimension articulations I've worked with are IN_CRED_I_BLE. That's Overdrive Guitar, and I'm a lead guitar in the post-Hendrix way for decades, is not lacking in any way as far as getting the thing to Specifically Happen. Not to mention the sound. I can't speak about the articulations for the big string or the rest of their library, but based on this, an instrument I am INTIMATELY familar with, I think your idea '(not) able to, as of yet, synthesize the right sounding transitions between notes" is sort of a thing of the past; certainly in the case of that VSL OD, there is no such issue. I'm talking things I cannot play but always wanted to, and I've been 'pro' since ca. 1973. The thing here, which few libraries have, is a kind of 'Performance Articulation' which is dynamic; you get behaviors from speed and velocity which are utterly real type of action.

Per strings, I have only the cheapo Appassionatas which come with Epic Orchestra. But the sound of these things, is this rich, old school, warm, analog recording kind of tone to die for. The engine of VI I believe to be superior to everything else. In fact I have A/Bd patches by VSL for Kontakt etc with the same patch in VI, and it's huge the difference, in presence, fatness. I don't know why, and I doubt they created new samples for 'Ocean Drum'.

[koolkeys]

Actually, I do own The Trumpet. And I like it. Not great for every trumpet use as it's quite a bright and cutting sound. But I don't find it too hard to get a good performance. Still some tweaking needed afterwards for some things. But between the expression pedal, mod wheel, and pitch wheel, you can play a pretty good performance. The keyswitches aren't something that is needed for every note, but just something you throw in there every so often. So depending on where your vibrato is needed and your hand is taken by the mod wheel, you can sometimes use the keyswitches in real time.

It takes some getting used to though, I'll give you that. I actually think the saxes are harder to get a great performance out of, but that's just me.

VSL is great for strings. Not for every use, but still pretty flexible. One thing is for sure though. If you need a good string library these days, there are plenty to choose from, eh? And no, I don't need to wait for WIVI or Samplemodeling to get a good and even realistic performance. I VERY VERY much look forward to their offerings. But the current options are still just fine.

Brent

[herodotus]

It is the reason why I have pretty much postponed my songwriting career. I am basically just sitting here waiting for these things to be developed and released. So that humble musicians like myself will not need to dispense with my dignity. My music is something I want to be proud of. I cannot achieve that with silly sample libraries that can not do justice to the instrument.

J.S. Bach was proud of his music. And yet in all his years at Leipzig he had little more than a handful of charity cases for a choir, along with a few town band members to handle the instrumental accompaniment. The performances were quite dreadful, and the entire apparatus was beneath his dignity by many orders of magnitude.

And yet he managed to write an immense body of music that is unsurpassed to this day. Not just the music he needed to write to fulfill his professional obligations, but personal projects like the Art of Fugue and the Musical Offering, which weren't even performed until centuries after his death.

Something to think about.

[jancivil]

Actually, I do own The Trumpet. And I like it. Not great for every trumpet use as it's quite a bright and cutting sound. But I don't find it too hard to get a good performance. Still some tweaking needed afterwards for some things. But between the expression pedal, mod wheel, and pitch wheel, you can play a pretty good performance. The keyswitches aren't something that is needed for every note, but just something you throw in there every so often. So depending on where your vibrato is needed and your hand is taken by the mod wheel, you can sometimes use the keyswitches in real time.

I have trotted it out for one thing, and it just looked like much more work than I was going to do for a simple part. With no controllers doing anything but the cc11 it requires to sound, it was a block of synth "trumpet" to me, requiring shaping - rather like a synth, ADSR envelope type of thinking.

For me, a sample which a horn player specifically played, that I don't have to create a peformance from top to bottom as this appeared to require (but I'm talking a few minutes experience with it) is much more useful. The dimensional approach of VI, various dynamic performance articulations is for me, I'm results-oriented, I need to get in there and get out.

[TristezaOrange]

Too little time or too little money?

The prices on on most commercial orchestral libraries (and to a point, audio software in general) make them prohibitive to anybody who's not an industry professional. I mean, seriously. Take a look at LASS - it's freaking $1,099. With a price tag like that I don't want to ever hear them complain about piracy.

These libraries are not aimed at teenagers "making beats" in FL in their bedrooms. Even if one is not an "industry professional," plenty of people with a decent paying job can still afford it. Lots of people who don't make a living with music routinely buy $1,000+ guitars, basses, keyboard workstations...etc.

I agree, even if your post strengthens the stereotype of FL as the noob's choice.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Is there any reason for this phenomenon? At least we have lots to choose from.

Probably someone has bills to pay, and thought "We'd better release another expensive sample library!"
Seriously, it's more a matter of computer hard drive space and CPU capacity having increased to a level to support such massive and detailed libraries.

By the way, does anyone know whether the Vitous String Ensembles comprises all new samples, or is this a repackaging of recordings from the older libraries?

Thank you....