Brick limiters vs regular Limiters

[ckatrun411]

If splitting hairs was an olympic sport, I'd bet on this thread.

[rymdis]

If splitting hairs was an olympic sport, I'd bet on this thread.

Just wanted to try to get another point of view... no intension making ppl crazy

will check a brickwall vs a regular on a waveform and actually see what it does. Thought there would be more technical to it though...

/R

[Compyfox]

I would imagine on the recording end having a lot of compressors, is vital since any minor adjustment can alter the sound. If you are mastering in which, you've already accomplished the sound you desire through equalisation the only thing you may need is one versatile compressor to tame some of the dynamics

Well yes, but in mastering I pretty much stay within a certain loudness range in terms of "gain boost" from the limiter. As of late, I barely even go higher than 4dB of boost, depending on the source material. And here, I can basically use every limiter (or even simple compressor) at my disposal.

Though a compressor is usually programm dependent, meaning, it responds more to the lowend unless I use a multiband compressor and/or sidechaining features. A limiter is mostly that fast with it's attack times, that this usually doesn't shine through, only if my HID Clipping indicator is lighting up.

Personally, I don't care if it's a brickwall limiter or not while the mastering stage. As long as it's doing what it should do.

I still dont understand the second post with the difference. They are limiters so they should work in the same manner, even if they are brickwall or not, right? Only difference is that brickwall is programmed to catch ALL stuff.

Actually, every compressor that uses very fast attack times (nano to microseconds) and a ratio higher 10:1 is in very basic form a limiter.

Like written to OMNIFEX before, and what he confirmed, a "Brickwall Limiter" is a limiter with reduced features to keep everything simple (autogain, set attack rates, you only mess with the threshold and the output gain).

Every limiter catches everything that goes above the set threshold. Some to internal overshots, true that, some are sloppy, true that as well. But 99% of them "compress" at the limit you decided with the threshold.

[OMNIFEX]

It depends on the source material. If you only have a few short peaks here and there and trim them , the you really won't change the RMS VS peaks relationship ( DYNAMICS) that much .

If you grind and squash like a 2x4 then there is no crest factor left. That's messeing with the dynamics a tad bit .

google "loudness wars"

But as you "trim" the transients as most people do with their limiters to be able to raise the overall dynamics even further i have to agree that you dont alter the dynamics too much when this is done but refering to my original question; i dont want to trim the transients with something that cant catch ALL of them. So from what ive read here a brickwall is the safest bet.

You are safer with a Brick-wall limiter because you do not know how to configure a compressor properly to get what you are looking for.

Please review the video I made using a compressor to create a Brick-wall Limiter against a Brickwall Limiter to bring forth the same results.

http://www.mediafire.com/?nqg5mmzjznj


If you do not want to know how to use your tools better, it may be best to just use the easiest route. In your case it would be one knob that restricts the dB level to wherever you see fit.

The questions you are asking have already been answered so, I would suggest reading everything again.


Cheers!

[OMNIFEX]

Personally, I don't care if it's a brickwall limiter or not while the mastering stage. As long as it's doing what it should do.

My thoughts exactly.

I will use the right tool to get the job done.

Cheers!

[rymdis]

The questions you are asking have already been answered so, I would suggest reading everything again.


Cheers!

I saw that now sorry for nagging... very well put OMNIFEX! You seem to know your stuff!

Thanks!

You must read my post about compression coming out tomorrow


/R
[/quote]

[eduardo_b]

The questions you are asking have already been answered so, I would suggest reading everything again.


Cheers!

I saw that now sorry for nagging... very well put OMNIFEX! You seem to know your stuff!

There's nothing wrong with asking questions and then asking more questions as you sort out the information. It's part of learning. You'll likely have more soon enough.

[eduardo_b]

This thread got me to thinking about another thread in which the question was limiters for dj software. It seems to me that a limiter would be an effective way to deal with tracks of different volumes rather than trying to normalize all the tracks (there could be hundreds) first. How would a limiter be set up for doing this?

[contrary]

This thread got me to thinking about another thread in which the question was limiters for dj software. It seems to me that a limiter would be an effective way to deal with tracks of different volumes rather than trying to normalize all the tracks (there could be hundreds) first. How would a limiter be set up for doing this?

that would need AGC ( Automatic Gain Control ) which only works so well....
a meta data system is better



http://www.rane.com/note155.html It's in chapter 4




The OP could take a looksie over at RANE too for lots of good tuits and tips .

[eduardo_b]

I suppose there are no multi-band brickwalls, are there? Not surprising, I suppose, given how many negative comments about the concept of mutli-band limiters I've seen. Does seem like a good way to get into trouble.

[BASSDRIVE]

What the hell is something like "GClip" then? A "Clipiter" ?

http://www.gvst.co.uk/gclip.htm

[geroyannis]

I suppose there are no multi-band brickwalls, are there? Not surprising, I suppose, given how many negative comments about the concept of mutli-band limiters I've seen. Does seem like a good way to get into trouble.

There's the T-RackS Multi-band Limiter. Actually, I find it very useful and use it a lot.

[eduardo_b]

I suppose there are no multi-band brickwalls, are there? Not surprising, I suppose, given how many negative comments about the concept of mutli-band limiters I've seen. Does seem like a good way to get into trouble.

There's the T-RackS Multi-band Limiter. Actually, I find it very useful and use it a lot.

On tracks or buss?

[rymdis]

IMO you shouldn't be allowed to use ANY type of limiter until you have a better fundamental understanding of what they are doing.

But he could practice limiting various kinds of music in the privacy of his own home.

Someone should make a limiter with dual controls...

And a network connection.

Limiting can be very versatilely

As i mostly use compressors i know pretty much how they work but now i know the difference between a brickwall and a regular limiter as well To me a a superfast attack with preferably lookahead features along with a really fast release to be able to reset itseft before the next transient is crucial. I normally treat my limiters which have attack and release knobs on it as "compressors". Like to have some sort of control. Maybe i just want to "tame" the transients with a bit longer attack and sometimes use a longer release time to be able to remove any pumping effects. To have it "working" with the beat of the tune. Not to lonog though as this will cause pumping effects also as it takes too long to recover after lets say a kick.

Its just that some advertise their limiters as brickwall and some dont, even though they in reality are from what i have read. Whats really happens inside i guess i harder to know. Some have lookahead and some dont. Some are program dependent like my LA2A. Well, not really a limiter itself but you can put it in "limiter mode" and will adjust the time parameters along with the signal. Some have a maximizer effect built in like the L2 from Waves so theres much stuff to get you confused

Thanks again to everybody who put in on this one!!

/R

[IIRs]

Maybe i just want to "tame" the transients with a bit longer attack

A longer attack time is likely to exaggerate the transients, not tame them.