Help with a progression

[hakey]

In my usual haphazard manner I've stumbled across some notes that sound okay together.

I've got a kind of walking bass using the notes G C D Bb, alongside which I'm playing alternating chords of CGBbD (G4th?) and GFAD (Dmin something or other?).
I've worked out that the key I'm in is Eb/Cmin and, if it means anything, I'm playing in swing time with a kind of jazzy feel to it.

I want some kind of change of gear, probably a key change; what key would be a good place to go and how would I get there (and back)?


Cheers

[Ogg Vorbis]

In my usual haphazard manner I've stumbled across some notes that sound okay together.

I've got a kind of walking bass using the notes G C D Bb, alongside which I'm playing alternating chords of CGBbD (G4th?) and GFAD (Dmin something or other?).
I've worked out that the key I'm in is Eb/Cmin and, if it means anything, I'm playing in swing time with a kind of jazzy feel to it.

I want some kind of change of gear, probably a key change; what key would be a good place to go and how would I get there (and back)?


Cheers

Do what you've got for 4 bars and then transpose the whole thing down a whole step. Do that for 2 bars and go back up for 2 bars. Do a turnaround (cadence) by going up a minor third (based around Bb) for 1 bar, down a whole step (Ab)for 1 bar and down a half step to the original point for 2 bars. Repeat and add solos to taste.

Voila! Cool modal blues.

[zthomas]

Go to Dmaj? the V of the V, and also the III of that last bass note

[hakey]

Thanks Ogg. I had a go at that and couldn't seem to get it to work - transposing everything down 2 steps didn't sound right somehow.

In the mean time I ended up finding some theory about the circle of fifths, which lead me to trying Ab/Fm after the Eb/Cm, sounds okay.

Go to Dmaj? the V of the V, and also the III of that last bass note

Thanks, I'll give that a try.

[Musicologo]

I'm confused...

Your first two chords Aren't just C9 (C-E-G-Bb-D) and Gm9 (G-Bb-D-F-A)?

Howcome you are in Eb?... Someone can explain me this in terms of tonal theory?...

[hakey]

I'm confused...

Your first two chords Aren't just C9 (C-E-G-Bb-D) and Gm9 (G-Bb-D-F-A)?

Howcome you are in Eb?... Someone can explain me this in terms of tonal theory?...

My understanding is that the scale of Eb major:

Eb F G Ab Bb C D

is also the scale of C natural minor (aka the Aeolian mode), but with the root shifted:

C D Eb F G Ab Bb

The notes are the same, but the root note is different.

In my example the root chord, the chord that I felt that I wanted to go 'back to', was a Cm chord, so I decided that I was in the C minor key. If the root/home chord was Eb then the key would be Eb major.

[hakey]

Thinking about it, maybe I was in Gm/Bb?

Not sure. The thing is, even when I seem to be in one particular key I tend to confuse things by playing the odd note that isn't in that key, probably because I don't really not what I'm doing, so I just hit keys until I hear something interesting. And I do find big jazzy chords and a degree of dissonance interesting.

[buckshead]

C G Bb D do indeed give a ninth chord, but without the third (E or Eb) you can't tell whether its C9 or Cm9. Similarly the other chord could be Gm9 or G9. You need to put the chords into context, I'm afraid. All I can say is that the Bb in the C9 chord might? make the following chord sound minor (its the natural seventh of C and the minor of G.

The melody would resolve the key question

[Musicologo]

Ok. Because of Bb in the first chord I assumed that the missing note in Gm9 would also be Bb. Thus Gm9. In the first chord I really didn't thought It could be either Cm or C. So if you have Eb in the solo, it must be Eb, and then Cm9.

So if you have Cm9 and Gm9, yes probably you are in Cm or Gm.

I would say that you are in Gm, because the V7 usually it's major. And if it were Cm, then Gm would not be major.

If we think of this as Gm, then we have,

iv9-i9-...

You can try iv9-i9-ii7-V9-i just to see how it sounds.

So,

Cm9, Gm9, Am7(b5), D9, Gm

Try playing after the second chord

am7 = A,C,Eb,G
Dm9 = D, F#, A, C, Eb
Gm = G, Bb, D

If it makes sense to you. Mix the order of the notes at your will, so they make sense with the horizontal lines.

[psenior]

I am not getting any kind of "swing" vibe out of this piece at all. For me to interpret this tune as swing, I'd need you to write typical jazz walking bass lines and the chords that fit perfectly with them.

I agree with Ogg Vorbis somewhat in that this song is a blues. I would call it a minor blues tune. You can take a modal approach if you like. I would take more of a soul jazz approach.

You are in the key of G minor. I think of your walking bass line as 1 4 5 b3. For your chords, I would play Gm7 and Dm7. So, we play this for a few bars, then we go up a fourth. That gets us C F G Eb for the bass and the chord vamp changes to Cm7 and Gm7. Then, back to where we started. You could go up a fifth if you wanted. I don't particularly like that sound too much but it's workable.

This kind of music is not all about hip chord changes; it's more about feel and expressing emotions. Listen to a bunch of minor blues tunes to get some ideas.

[hakey]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I've kind of worked out a few changes - haven't got a clue what I've done, but somehow it sounds okay.

I am not getting any kind of "swing" vibe out of this piece at all. For me to interpret this tune as swing, I'd need you to write typical jazz walking bass lines and the chords that fit perfectly with them.

Nothing to do with the genre 'swing'. Perhaps I used the wrong jargon - I said swing time, by which I meant it's set to a shuffle rhythm based around triplets (I guess it's actually in 6/8 time - my DAW is set to 4/4, but I've toggled the grid to show triplets).

But it certainly sound jazzy to my ears, with something of a Miles Davis, cool jazz feel.

[tapper mike]

Honestly study some theory.
Pick up a book go to a website read learn apply what you've leanrd.

Theory is the light that shines the path. You can stumble around in the dark via your current method of trial and error or you can turn on the light. With the light on you can find the path you want to go down and not have to fall off a side of a cliff in the process. As well with theory you can identify which paths you've already taken.

Right now you have counting skills.
You know the note names.
Theory puts those names in context of sets such as keys and their modes.

You aren't Pythagoras, Pythagoras died long before you were born. He didn't take music theory to his grave. He shared his theories with the world so that the next guy wouldn't have to stumble in the dark. Same with many other composers/theorists.