KVR Audio

Doug1978-OLD · Post by **Doug1978-OLD** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:19 am

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kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:32 pm

Ditto what Epiphany said...it wasn't always anywhere as near as complicated as people make out. And it most certainly wasn't all analogue, although mostly it was mixed through analogue desks.

M1s were widepsread throughout the 90s, especially early 90s.
JD800s were very popular for those willing to splash out a little more.
All manner of cheap and cheerful crap was used too - Old Roland D50s etc (and the rack equivalents).
Samplers were rife, and the majority would have used or had access to an Akai of some sort, either an S1000, 1100 or even an older 950. In fact, sampling was used much, much more than some of the younger ones here suspect. Not everyone had a 909 or 808, but everyone had a decent set of samples of them, and used them as a basis for loads of beats. And breakbeats weren't anywhere near as fancy in the early 90s - you often didn't even bother splitting them up, you just used them as they came and layered them...maybe even filtered them a little bit, but don't forget that S1000s did not have resonant filters on them.

And there were synths like the Kurweils - basically S&S with a selection of filters and modes that are probably considered pretty paltry by today's standards. You could have a sampling board fitted to Kurweils, and those that spent that kind of money on a synth like that tended to use them a lot. They didn't use 15 different synths because they simply couldn't afford 15 synths - no such thing as cheap and throwaway VSTi choices like there is now.
Korg 01/Ws...I nearly forgot those - they sold by the bucketload in the day (and I remember them as pretty bland and featurelss synths too) - but some tunes will even have awful things like preset 01/W drums all over them. I used to hear even M1 drums all over records. You used what you could afford, and you used it to maximum effect. Remember the M1 fingersnap? That was used by everyone I knew at some point, and it was used for different drumsounds up and down over 3 octaves to make it sound different.

Analogues would have mainly been Junos and Alpha Junos, Polysixes, Korg Dws etc. 101s, 202s and all manner of other cheapish analogues. Every studio used to have a Juno of some kind because not everyone could afford them, and you tended to go to studiosfor:
A) access to analogue stuff you didn't have (and that didn't necessarily mean flashy and expensive rare synths at all...)
B) Decent outboard (which meant mainly things like reverbs like Lexicons)
C) for a mixing engineer.

People would often have things like Alesis Quadraverbs, older Lexicn LX5s etc, and they were used. They weren't just for show at home.

And...certainly some of the bigger budget stuff would have used flash studios with fancy outboard, but fancy analogue compressors and Eqs were simply not as rife as newbs suspect. Back in those days, you simply didn't have access to racks of compressors and (gasp, horror) you simply didn't compress anything you didn't have to. A compressor might be used on a drum group, but maybe not on any other instrument. Yes, true. Squashing the bejeesus out of everything is only a thing of recent years with the advent of easily and cheaply accessible s/w.

Any old fart can tell you that whole tunes were made with 3 or 4 synths or less if a sampler was used. One decent reverb, a multiFX box or two and maybe a compressor over the whole mix. Probably an enhancer too. Studios often wouldn't even use an Eq - they'd leave that for their mastering engineer of choice. Eq was generally only mixing desk Eq. A bass shelf, a high shelf and a parametric or even semiparametric mid Eq on the desk. If you went somewhere a bit fancier, then you had 2 mid bands on the desk. Just because we have access to any tool we want nowadays, don't assume it was done the same way 15-20 years ago. It was way more simple then.

One of my mates released many tunes with only a Jupiter 6, an 01/W, a 909 (he was a bit flash those days...

), a Korg A1 multiFX unit and an old analogue flanger. He went to studios pretty well only to get a mixing engineer and a fancy Lexicon and sampler. Later on he got extras like a 303 etc. But yeah - some of those old cheesey basslines were done on nothing fancier than a Yamaha 4-op FM synth or even a set of samples taken off one. It was amazing what you could do with an M1 - try playing an M1 today and discover how incredibly limited it is compared to even freebie VSTi of today. I used one of those for drums, basslines, pads, all kinds of things. So did others.

dark_virus · Post by **dark_virus** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:13 am

Nice info, Kritikon.

living sounds · Post by **living sounds** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:58 am

A lot of the trance/house/techno releases at that time were made with modest equipment, but when it comes to chart-topping mainstream dance music big studios with high end equipment were used frequently. RMB's "Redemption" was mostly done using a JD-990. However, 2 Unlimited's "No Limit" was certainly done in a fairly well-equipped professional studio. Cheesy stuff, but nevertheless high production standards.

ozmoz2008 · Post by **ozmoz2008** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:04 am

kritikon wrote:...try playing an M1 today and discover how incredibly limited it is compared to even freebie VSTi of today. I used one of those for drums, basslines, pads, all kinds of things. So did others.

That's true, M1 were overuse, that's why I'm not too fancy on VSTs like Sylenth, there is somehow a similar sound quality to it. Lots of mid-bass "cloggy" stuff, not to mention all the reverbs they were putting on patch and that we were taking off all the time.

The Roland stuff was often more interesting, mostly on the leads and bass lines. We were also using a lot the TX802(and DX7) for bass, quite punchy stuff in there.

I remember a track, not a Euro track though, that we mix with two boards patch together with 4 people calling the cues out loud in real-time while mixing down to 2 tracks(8hands on the boards), it was really crazy.

Like someone said here about KVR, I kind of miss those days sometimes. Other times I'm just so happy to have to work a lot less to get further with productions without all the fusses we use to have.

10cypher · Post by **10cypher** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:50 am

Hi.
I absolutelly LOVE the 90-ties music.
I think there was a significant change in (euro)dance sound sometimes in late 1993.
In my opinion, in 90-92 the music was generally more acid/house like. Much "harder" and more "techno or rave".
I suggest that mostly samplers - Roland 550 and Akai 900/1000 series ???, TR909,808, TB303, SH101, M1 (typical house piano a organ sounds) and analog synths like Roland Juno??? was used - Hoover sounds, maybe also D50 for same pads (does someone know for sure???) and also Yamaha FM synths especially in basses (and bells?).
There is quite notable that the sounds was often short or "choppy" - typical for early sampling.

Then there was a change in the dance sound in late 93. The sound of 93-96 eurodance was IMHO much more "happier" and "digitally cleaner". Basicly no resonance. Maybe because of use of some digital synth insteed of so much sampling ?
Where did the LEAD sounds come from? Was it Roland JD-990 ??? Or ?
It sounds often like a saw or pulse sound, but from what gear?

Thanks for informations

Fragile_Frankie · Post by **Fragile_Frankie** » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:05 am

Bump, 'cause I also wanna know more about this. Anyone know any other "famous" presets from the era, aside from the Lately/Solid Bass?

10cypher · Post by **10cypher** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:16 pm

famous presets were as mentioned "house" M1 organ and piano

IMHO the leads in eurodance/dancefloor comes often from Roland JD800 or 990
As someone mentioned, many great pads are from Korg Wavestation.
But does not someone has "first hand" informations?

Fragile_Frankie · Post by **Fragile_Frankie** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:53 pm

Aah, the Wavestation. Do you know which specific preset names they used?

And were they still using the M1 piano in late '90s Eurodance like Aqua?

This kinda makes me wanna buy that Korg Legacy Collection.

10cypher · Post by **10cypher** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:47 pm

well, I also forgot the M1 choir, which was also used in late nineties trance.
IMHO also the M1 piano was.
Till maybe 1993 there were probably no "dance oriented" synth. Or just I dont know them. Just partial synths were used - one for string, other for lead, etc.
The machines not especially made just for dance, but because they were available, they created the sound and genre.

What about the QUASIMIDI synths? Many they models very made for use in dance/rave/techno in mid 90ties. But these were probably used a bit later and for "harder" styles - maybe mainly 94-96?
And what about Kurzweil 2000 and its use in eurodance? Who did it use?
Does someone has infos?

10cypher · Post by **10cypher** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:40 pm

really does not someone have "first hand" infos about the gear that was used for the main lead sounds (sawtooth, pulse likes) by popular dancefloor (eurodance) producers in the middle of nineties? Roland JD800 or 990? Brand new (at that time) JV-1080? Or older romplers like D50 and D110? or something different?

living sounds · Post by **living sounds** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:14 pm

10cypher wrote:really does not someone have "first hand" infos about the gear that was used for the main lead sounds (sawtooth, pulse likes) by popular dancefloor (eurodance) producers in the middle of nineties? Roland JD800 or 990? Brand new (at that time) JV-1080? Or older romplers like D50 and D110? or something different?

Any specific examples for the songs? In many cases they used analog synths for this kind of thing, Roland especially. Lead sounds is not what Romplers are best at.

TIMT · Post by **TIMT** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:27 pm

All the early trance synths if where talking late 90'ies early 2000 2001 would of been the Novation supernova a favourite with the likes of ferry corsten jp8000 and probably the early nordleads and virus classic

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:35 pm

kritikon wrote:some of those old cheesey basslines were done on nothing fancier than a Yamaha 4-op FM synth or even a set of samples taken off one.

I used a Yamaha PSS-680 as a bassline machine during the early '90's. Couldn't afford anything better. I used to have to cut all the high end using the desk EQ (Seck 12-8-2) because of the high-pitched whine it produced. Good solid bass sound tho' ...

Happy Frog · Post by **Happy Frog** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:53 pm

Also, I think William Orbit spent a lot of time utilizing his Roland Juno, ran it through a Korg MS20's filter.

Looking for 90's eurodance sounds / techniques