Sharing your music.... When it's not very good

[eduardo_b]

i think he meant "do some actual research for a change instead of stating opinion as fact as you do so often. you may want to google [the history of the recording studio], spend several months reading everything you can, and then come back" or something similar.

Been there, done that. Anyone who wants insights into these topics can read the monthly articles in Sound On Sound about how and why engineers do what they do and how mixes by non-engineers are fixed. The problem isn't the tools available for home studios. It's the knowledge of how to use them, which is quite separate from the creative process of music itself. Try reading the many articles in TapeOp regarding artists and engineers. I've been interested in this topic for many years. My opinions are the result of all the knowledge (facts, if you like) I have acquired in the process.

There's certainly no shortage of opinions on kvr.

To be fair though, you have to acknowledge the bias of professional engineers, who wish to maintain their jobs in the face of the threat from home studios. So of course they will tell you that you have to keep the engineering process separate.

Not thinking of the career aspect, although the loss of many studios has obviously had that effect. I'm just noting that the degree of technical knowledge and working experience is so extensive, and well beyond what someone trying to spend a few hours a week on the music hobby can begin to master. That's my only point. It's about the technical aspects competing with the creative process of songwriting and music. I think it's an inherent situation with home studios. My supposition is that this can bring the process to a grinding halt. Not for everyone, but for many.

I can't count the numbers of threads and posts with people saying how they never get anything finished or even close.

[vurt]

I can't count the numbers of threads and posts with people saying how they never get anything finished or even close.

can you count the number of finished tracks posted on the internet daily?

[eduardo_b]

Do you know how many people pay their bills late and miss appointments? some people just don't follow up whether it be music or their day job... if they don't finish them and share them, we don't hear them... so on this topic, i think that argument would be somewhat invalid as we're talking about music that is shared, not music that never sees the light of day... irrelevance... ALL composers have crap songs that never see the light of day, ed.

Music that is never finished doesn't get shared, does it. Wasn't the OP saying nothing he has is ready for this kind of scrutiny? Could be technical issues...maybe not. Whatever.

Well, then he should do what any musician who is concerned about the quality of the whole package... play it for other musicians and if possible, anyone that does pro sound and get criticism. i can relate, always wanting things to be "perfect" before sharing stuff, i think it's some of that with the OP, but at some point you have to get another set of ears on it. That IS what the pros do, right? I seem to remember reading that mantra more than once... Preferably you find someone who is like minded enough to appreciate what you're going for but neutral enough to offer constructive criticism on all aspects of the song.

Yes, yes, yes. I think that's the essence of getting to the point of being happy with the work. Collaboration is essential. I think that's why demos, despite their many technical issues, work so well. The music is the focus. The technical aspects will all be fixed in the studio with someone else dealing with those issues, or at least explaining how to fix them.

[eduardo_b]

I can't count the numbers of threads and posts with people saying how they never get anything finished or even close.

can you count the number of finished tracks posted on the internet daily?

I'm talking about here, on kvr. I assume this is representative of the larger universe of home studios.

[bmot]

I saw this link on another KVR thread, but it's completely on topic I promise!

http://www.dangerousminds.net/index.php ... placement/

Enjoy...

ps it seems to support the OP's opinion. As for myself, i'm undecided on the issue

[whyterabbyt]

I can't count the numbers of threads and posts with people saying how they never get anything finished or even close.

are you trying to imply that that something you say you cant count is higher than something you can count, eg the number of posts in the music cafe?

[debra1rlo]

Do you know how many people pay their bills late and miss appointments? some people just don't follow up whether it be music or their day job... if they don't finish them and share them, we don't hear them... so on this topic, i think that argument would be somewhat invalid as we're talking about music that is shared, not music that never sees the light of day... irrelevance... ALL composers have crap songs that never see the light of day, ed.

Music that is never finished doesn't get shared, does it. Wasn't the OP saying nothing he has is ready for this kind of scrutiny? Could be technical issues...maybe not. Whatever.

Well, then he should do what any musician who is concerned about the quality of the whole package... play it for other musicians and if possible, anyone that does pro sound and get criticism. i can relate, always wanting things to be "perfect" before sharing stuff, i think it's some of that with the OP, but at some point you have to get another set of ears on it. That IS what the pros do, right? I seem to remember reading that mantra more than once... Preferably you find someone who is like minded enough to appreciate what you're going for but neutral enough to offer constructive criticism on all aspects of the song.

Yes, yes, yes. I think that's the essence of getting to the point of being happy with the work. Collaboration is essential. I think that's why demos, despite their many technical issues, work so well. The music is the focus. The technical aspects will all be fixed in the studio with someone else dealing with those issues, or at least explaining how to fix them.

While I'm glad you agree with me, I think you're kind of getting wrapped around the axle about "demos" and "fixing technical aspects in the studio" because usually the result of demoes that i've heard/done is that you usually do a new take on a part or the whole song to "fix" whatever problem that lies therein.

Fwiw, the only reason my album took so long to mix and master wasn't because there was a lot to fix in the studio, it was almost all logistical issues that come from working with someone that lives across the country and could only put their spare time towards the project. The ones we did the most "fixing" were the songs that my collaborator challenged me to do new takes as opposed to "fixing it in the mix", we never did that and I worked with someone that has engineered professionally released music.

I've aced advanced calculus in college, so learning about sound and mixing hasn't been near the rocket science you are elevating it to in your posts, tbh.

[justin3am]

the phrase "nothing is true, everything is permitted" has so many applications in life. IMO of course.

[eduardo_b]

I've aced advanced calculus in college, so learning about sound and mixing hasn't been near the rocket science you are elevating it to in your posts, tbh.

It's not rocket science, but if you don't know what you don't know, it might as well be. You can spend days trying to fix an issue that takes minutes with knowledge and experience.

You had the advantage of collaborating with someone who has done engineering professionally, which makes a huge difference both during the process and at the end. This isn't true for most of those who are posting here.

Plus you stuck it out. You kept working on it despite the time and effort. That really makes the difference.

[debra1rlo]

I've aced advanced calculus in college, so learning about sound and mixing hasn't been near the rocket science you are elevating it to in your posts, tbh.

It's not rocket science, but if you don't know what you don't know, it might as well be. You can spend days trying to fix an issue that takes minutes with knowledge and experience.

You had the advantage of collaborating with someone who has done engineering professionally, which makes a huge difference both during the process and at the end. This isn't true for most of those who are posting here.

Plus you stuck it out. You kept working on it despite the time and effort. That really makes the difference.

This just goes back to how some people are. Some people don't finish th

[eduardo_b]

I've aced advanced calculus in college, so learning about sound and mixing hasn't been near the rocket science you are elevating it to in your posts, tbh.

It's not rocket science, but if you don't know what you don't know, it might as well be. You can spend days trying to fix an issue that takes minutes with knowledge and experience.

You had the advantage of collaborating with someone who has done engineering professionally, which makes a huge difference both during the process and at the end. This isn't true for most of those who are posting here.

Plus you stuck it out. You kept working on it despite the time and effort. That really makes the difference.

This just goes back to how some people are. Some people don't finish th

[vurt]

Plus you stuck it out. You kept working on it despite the time and effort. That really makes the difference.

no one is saying there isnt work involved. but to do one thing or the other well also requires work. if you can dedicate yourself to one id imagine you have the mindset that means you can dedicate time to learn most things

yes, you do get people who excel at one thing so well that all else is almost ignored, chessmasters that cant even wipe their own arses and whatnot, but id say they are the rare gems.

[Hink]

Some points from my experience I would like to share some stemming from different posts in this thread.

1. I do post music unfinished, in fact I have a page called Hink's Snippets for that very purpose.

2. Many musicians here post sample clips of work when demonstrating what a piece of software or hardware can do, good example would be Dimitar.

3. All the music I own is in my Zen player, maybe one out of ten times a song of mine appears on random play I listen to it.

4. When a song is finished and posted because my live playing days are over I never play it again. Which translates again to what I said I think on page one, once I post a song it's already accomplished for me what I wanted it to. I am sharing it, not promoting myself as I do not have any wishes to go beyond where I am at now.

5. My occupation is music, unfortunately too many people define occupation as how you make a living. But the word stems from occupy and what occupies most of my time is music (excluding being a father, son etc as those are 24/7).

6. I haven't finished many songs in the last few years, not out of being less than satisfied but as a result of little life issues popping up, songs I'm still not ready to finish because they are still bringing me the pleasure of playing them and the constant flow of new ideas and new gear.

7. I will never make back the money I have put into music, but it's paid for itself 1000 fold.

8. I think it's awesome to be on either side of this debate, each has it's own validity and surely applies to each artist differently.

9. When you take the competition aspect out you have nothing to lose but everything to gain no matter what side of the fence you're on.

10. Something I say often, keep an open mind and you can learn something from everyone. Close your mind and you only hurt yourself.

[vurt]

i realised i just suggested someone who cant wipe their arse is a gem, i think that tells you alot about how i see the world

[vurt]

You guys sure are getting vicious, and for the purposes of the topic at hand, I cannot see why.

its not aggression, its passion