I'm quite sure SPAN displays K level meter correctly - the easiest way to check is to measure white noise's level. Noise with RMS at -24 dBFS reads as -1 on K-20 meter. Sinewave peaking at -20 dBFS reads as 0 on K-20 meter.
As for the idea to show K and dBFS meters together, I do not see this useful - it's probably a minute need to be check if K meter shows "valid" values.
Voxengo SPAN pre 2.0 public beta-testing (update 3)
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4030 posts since 7 Sep, 2002
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4030 posts since 7 Sep, 2002
Oh, of course - I mistaken the reading 
I meant -20 dBFS peaking sinewave reads as 0 on K-20 meter.
I meant -20 dBFS peaking sinewave reads as 0 on K-20 meter.
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- KVRist
- 101 posts since 2 Dec, 2005
The problem is that to read the RMS clearly SPAN needs a pair of RMS meters in addition to the Peak meters that are currently in place. The peaks make reading the RMS in SPAN nearly impossible. Please refer to how Blue Cat Audio implemented RMS metering in between Peak meters inside their Peak Meter Pro 3. I would love to see a future version of SPAN include this type of functionality.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4030 posts since 7 Sep, 2002
Melvin, I do not quite understand why you can't read peak and RMS values. If they are equal - they are equal.
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- KVRist
- 101 posts since 2 Dec, 2005
Span's meters show you peak information and not RMS. SPAN displays the RMS value as a digital number readout (not on the meter) and displays the Peak levels on the meter. Thus, SPAN does not display the RMS of your program music easily like the Blue Cat does which shows the RMS and Peak on totally seperate meters.
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- KVRist
- 171 posts since 11 Aug, 2004 from Toronto, Canada
@Melvin J.: SPAN v2 meter ballistics can be configured to react as an RMS meter on the K-scale, see my earlier post for the setup.
@Aleksey: I'll check again in REAPER later on using white noise calibration. I disagree that showing dbFS and K meters simultaneously wouldn't be useful, in fact it's how Bob Katz proposes a K-meter should be implemented (link). Just a suggestion...
@Aleksey: I'll check again in REAPER later on using white noise calibration. I disagree that showing dbFS and K meters simultaneously wouldn't be useful, in fact it's how Bob Katz proposes a K-meter should be implemented (link). Just a suggestion...
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- KVRian
- 687 posts since 27 Dec, 2003
I go with Aleksey. No Peak meter needed here for K-Metering. Over LEDs or maximum peak level readout is sufficient.tibenmik wrote:@Aleksey: I'll check again in REAPER later on using white noise calibration. I disagree that showing dbFS and K meters simultaneously wouldn't be useful, in fact it's how Bob Katz proposes a K-meter should be implemented (link). Just a suggestion...
Some quotes from Bob Katz:
Engineers must learn that the sole purpose of the peak meter is to protect the medium
The dual-characteristic meter has a bar representing the average level and a moving line or dot above the bar representing the most recent highest instantaneous (1 sample) peak level.
after a while I simply turned off the peak portion of the meter as it was distracting
At K-20 and with 6 speakers running, you have so much headroom that it is hardly necessary to watch the peak meters at all.
All from http://www.digido.com/level-practices-p ... ystem.htmlPeak section of the meter: The peak section is always a flat response, representing the true (1 sample) peak level, regardless of which averaging meter is used. An additional pointer above the moving peak represents the highest peak in the previous 10 seconds. A peak hold/release button on the meter changes this pointer to an infinite high peak hold until released. The meter has a fast rise time (aka integration time) of one digital sample, and a slow fall time, ~3 seconds to fall 26 dB. An adjustable and resettable OVER counter is highly recommended, counting the number of contiguous samples that reach full scale.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4030 posts since 7 Sep, 2002
tibenmik, thanks for the idea, but I personally do not find it much useful.
Melvin, as tibenmik suggested, please check out ballistics settings.
Melvin, as tibenmik suggested, please check out ballistics settings.
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- KVRist
- 171 posts since 11 Aug, 2004 from Toronto, Canada
@dandruff: your Katz quotes are in line with what I was getting at. SPAN v2's meter does show maximum peak level dbFS as a line even with a 600ms integration time, so in effect it is able to show both K-metered RMS and highest recorded dbFS peak at present (although the peak value might be way off the scale depending on the K-meter setting, and it's difficult to tell its exact value when the scale is set to K-meter).
@Aleksey: <edit>
@Aleksey: <edit>
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4030 posts since 7 Sep, 2002
Is there something wrong with that?Sonik31 wrote:Hi,
On Cubase 5 on Mac, it appears on Voxengo/Native Instruments...
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- KVRAF
- 1644 posts since 18 Mar, 2004 from Lincoln, CA
I've been a big fan of SPAN and I have a few questions:
1) Will there be an updated user's manual when the official 2.0 version is released? Some features are hard to figure out without in-depth explanation
2) If you have a few color schemes to choose from, you might as well give us the access to customize the colors ourselves (like what Synth1 does). SPAN is freaking awesome, but the color choices leave a lot to be desired (speaking from the perspective of a professional artist and someone who has art directed GUI artists).
3) The default slope is set to 4.50dB but isn't the universal standard 3dB? Just wondering why it's defaulted at 4.50.
1) Will there be an updated user's manual when the official 2.0 version is released? Some features are hard to figure out without in-depth explanation
2) If you have a few color schemes to choose from, you might as well give us the access to customize the colors ourselves (like what Synth1 does). SPAN is freaking awesome, but the color choices leave a lot to be desired (speaking from the perspective of a professional artist and someone who has art directed GUI artists).
3) The default slope is set to 4.50dB but isn't the universal standard 3dB? Just wondering why it's defaulted at 4.50.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4030 posts since 7 Sep, 2002
Lunatique, please take a look at the "Primary User Guide" - it contains all the required info.
Color schemes are fixed and customization function is not planned.
You can set any default slope you need by using the "Set as Default" function in the preset manager.
Color schemes are fixed and customization function is not planned.
You can set any default slope you need by using the "Set as Default" function in the preset manager.
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- KVRAF
- 1644 posts since 18 Mar, 2004 from Lincoln, CA
Ahhh, I looked at the Primary User Guide and it didn't look like it was specific to SPAN, but now I see all the Voxengo plugins share similar features.Aleksey Vaneev wrote:Lunatique, please take a look at the "Primary User Guide" - it contains all the required info.
Color schemes are fixed and customization function is not planned.
You can set any default slope you need by using the "Set as Default" function in the preset manager.
If I made some color schemes for you, would you consider adding them to the list of choices? I promise they will look very nice.
I know I can set the slope--my question was "why" you set it to 4.50. I just want to know for educational reasons--maybe I'd learn something new.