Sharing your music.... When it's not very good

[cybertron]

the phrase "nothing is true, everything is permitted" has so many applications in life. IMO of course.

So everything is false?

That is as profound a statement (William S Burroughs in The Western Lands, repeating a legend 'from the deathbed of Hassan i Sabbah, Master of Assassins') as there is in all literature in my opinion. You give equal validity to all things, it's all a wash, there is no discernment available after a point. Everything is true = nothing is permitted.

Not how things are in the world.

I disagree. Reality has been proven (at least in physics) to be fluid and not as solid or permament as most think it is.

If you have the mental discipline, tell the Universe what you want, and often times it will oblige in some manner that is rather interesting.

[jancivil]

the phrase "nothing is true, everything is permitted" has so many applications in life. IMO of course.

So everything is false?

That is as profound a statement (William S Burroughs in The Western Lands, repeating a legend 'from the deathbed of Hassan i Sabbah, Master of Assassins') as there is in all literature in my opinion. You give equal validity to all things, it's all a wash, there is no discernment available after a point. Everything is true = nothing is permitted.

Not how things are in the world.

What does that mean?

I have no idea where that's coming from. It's not even a sentence.

[eduardo_b]

If you have the mental discipline, tell the Universe what you want, and often times it will oblige in some manner that is rather interesting.

The power of positive thinking or speaking? The thing is, if the universe doesn't oblige, does one blame a lack of insufficient mental discipline or simply accept how things are?

[jancivil]

the phrase "nothing is true, everything is permitted" has so many applications in life. IMO of course.

So everything is false?

That is as profound a statement (William S Burroughs in The Western Lands, repeating a legend 'from the deathbed of Hassan i Sabbah, Master of Assassins') as there is in all literature in my opinion. You give equal validity to all things, it's all a wash, there is no discernment available after a point. Everything is true = nothing is permitted.

Not how things are in the world.

I disagree. Reality has been proven (at least in physics) to be fluid and not as solid or permament as most think it is.

If you have the mental discipline, tell the Universe what you want, and often times it will oblige in some manner that is rather interesting.

That may be true. How it applies to what I just said in a discussion of aesthetics is a mystery to me. Not everything is true in terms of reality. That's not just a vanishing probability, it's impossible. What you'd get is white noise.

'Everything is true' in terms of an art, giving equal validity to every person's efforts, is the slipperiest of slopes if one is after some form of truth. I reject tarnce absolutely as featuring truth in the form of a musical object. I think that was a good move, not a bad one. YMMV, if you prefer to ride a tricycle that is.

the phrase "nothing is true, everything is permitted" has so many applications in life. IMO of course.

So everything is false?

No, everything is permitted. Nothing is false either. I think you know how I feel about these kinds of subjects. In my opinion, no perspective monopolizes validity.

I'd say that a person who is insecure about their work should be encouraged to share what they are most insecure about. It doesn't have to be about arrogance, I simply believe that the world is a better place with more music not less and every person has their own definition of what is and is not music.

That said, I acknowledge the validity of other peoples perspective and i reserve the right to make fun of people I disagree with.

I acknowledge the validity of your personal position, but I think your conclusions are wishy-washy to the point of being nearly nonsensical. How's that?

I think there is FAR too much 'music' in the world, made by people who haven't any knack or much care or feeling for it.

If you hit notes consistently in an art, let's say acting as you won't be that invested in it on here, that do not ring true, ie., you're not convincing, it isn't believable, no one buys the popcorn, where's the argument that something valid was done here? But, music is just so special, we can't believe that about music.

If your act ain't together to the point that you disclaim it in the title of the post at music cafe, chances are good that it's a waste of time for everybody. Get your chops together a little bit, it's a crowded planet which already sounds pretty shitty.

Vicious enough? I don't mean the eBow thing, btw, i'm just teasing you there. I just don't encourage music per se to be tried by everyone at the same time. That amounts to noise, and not the good kind. Everything is true, nothing is permitted.

[eduardo_b]

the phrase "nothing is true, everything is permitted" has so many applications in life. IMO of course.

So everything is false?

That is as profound a statement (William S Burroughs in The Western Lands, repeating a legend 'from the deathbed of Hassan i Sabbah, Master of Assassins') as there is in all literature in my opinion. You give equal validity to all things, it's all a wash, there is no discernment available after a point. Everything is true = nothing is permitted.

Not how things are in the world.

What does that mean?

I have no idea where that's coming from. It's not even a sentence.

Well, everything is permitted, nothing is permitted don't actually translate to the actualities of life. There are -- to me -- no absolutes, so these two statements cannot functionally exist, and they certainly can't simultaneously co-exist. So, what do they mean?

All things have equal validity? In theory, in discussion, yes, but not in life.

Of course, I'm such a pragmatist.

[Hink]

the phrase "nothing is true, everything is permitted" has so many applications in life. IMO of course.

So everything is false?

That is as profound a statement (William S Burroughs in The Western Lands, repeating a legend 'from the deathbed of Hassan i Sabbah, Master of Assassins') as there is in all literature in my opinion. You give equal validity to all things, it's all a wash, there is no discernment available after a point. Everything is true = nothing is permitted.

Not how things are in the world.

I disagree. Reality has been proven (at least in physics) to be fluid and not as solid or permament as most think it is.

If you have the mental discipline, tell the Universe what you want, and often times it will oblige in some manner that is rather interesting.

That may be true. How it applies to what I just said in a discussion of aesthetics is a mystery to me. Not everything is true in terms of reality. That's not just a vanishing probability, it's impossible. What you'd get is white noise.

'Everything is true' in terms of an art, giving equal validity to every person's efforts, is the slipperiest of slopes if one is after some form of truth. I reject tarnce absolutely as featuring truth in the form of a musical object. I think that was a good move, not a bad one. YMMV, if you prefer to ride a tricycle that is.

the phrase "nothing is true, everything is permitted" has so many applications in life. IMO of course.

So everything is false?

No, everything is permitted. Nothing is false either. I think you know how I feel about these kinds of subjects. In my opinion, no perspective monopolizes validity.

I'd say that a person who is insecure about their work should be encouraged to share what they are most insecure about. It doesn't have to be about arrogance, I simply believe that the world is a better place with more music not less and every person has their own definition of what is and is not music.

That said, I acknowledge the validity of other peoples perspective and i reserve the right to make fun of people I disagree with.

I acknowledge the validity of your personal position, but I think your conclusions are wishy-washy to the point of being nearly nonsensical. How's that?

I think there is FAR too much 'music' in the world, made by people who haven't any knack or much care or feeling for it.

If you hit notes consistently in an art, let's say acting as you won't be that invested in it on here, that do not ring true, ie., you're not convincing, it isn't believable, no one buys the popcorn, where's the argument that something valid was done here? But, music is just so special, we can't believe that about music.

If you're act ain't together to the point that you disclaim it in the title of the post at music cafe, chances are good that it's a waste of time for everybody. Get your chops together a little bit, it's a crowded planet which already sounds pretty shitty.

Vicious enough? I don't mean the eBow thing, btw, i'm just teasing you there. I just don't encourage music per se to be tried by everyone at the same time. That amounts to noise, and not the good kind. Everything is true, nothing is permitted.

can you see the rest of us from way up there?

[jancivil]

A LOT of people 'make music' as an EGO EXTENSION, a way to make money for nothing, chix for free, and all this kind of thing. To impress the other boys and girls, to be seen as a cool person, all sorts of impure impulses at work with it, as far as I can tell, more than any other art form.

To give that equal ground as someone utterly committing a life to it? What is that? What are you justifying there?

[jancivil]

So everything is false?

That is as profound a statement (William S Burroughs in The Western Lands, repeating a legend 'from the deathbed of Hassan i Sabbah, Master of Assassins') as there is in all literature in my opinion. You give equal validity to all things, it's all a wash, there is no discernment available after a point. Everything is true = nothing is permitted.

Not how things are in the world.

I disagree. Reality has been proven (at least in physics) to be fluid and not as solid or permament as most think it is.

If you have the mental discipline, tell the Universe what you want, and often times it will oblige in some manner that is rather interesting.

That may be true. How it applies to what I just said in a discussion of aesthetics is a mystery to me. Not everything is true in terms of reality. That's not just a vanishing probability, it's impossible. What you'd get is white noise.

'Everything is true' in terms of an art, giving equal validity to every person's efforts, is the slipperiest of slopes if one is after some form of truth. I reject tarnce absolutely as featuring truth in the form of a musical object. I think that was a good move, not a bad one. YMMV, if you prefer to ride a tricycle that is.

the phrase "nothing is true, everything is permitted" has so many applications in life. IMO of course.

So everything is false?

No, everything is permitted. Nothing is false either. I think you know how I feel about these kinds of subjects. In my opinion, no perspective monopolizes validity.

I'd say that a person who is insecure about their work should be encouraged to share what they are most insecure about. It doesn't have to be about arrogance, I simply believe that the world is a better place with more music not less and every person has their own definition of what is and is not music.

That said, I acknowledge the validity of other peoples perspective and i reserve the right to make fun of people I disagree with.

I acknowledge the validity of your personal position, but I think your conclusions are wishy-washy to the point of being nearly nonsensical. How's that?

I think there is FAR too much 'music' in the world, made by people who haven't any knack or much care or feeling for it.

If you hit notes consistently in an art, let's say acting as you won't be that invested in it on here, that do not ring true, ie., you're not convincing, it isn't believable, no one buys the popcorn, where's the argument that something valid was done here? But, music is just so special, we can't believe that about music.

If you're act ain't together to the point that you disclaim it in the title of the post at music cafe, chances are good that it's a waste of time for everybody. Get your chops together a little bit, it's a crowded planet which already sounds pretty shitty.

Vicious enough? I don't mean the eBow thing, btw, i'm just teasing you there. I just don't encourage music per se to be tried by everyone at the same time. That amounts to noise, and not the good kind. Everything is true, nothing is permitted.

can you see the rest of us from way up there?

Almost not. And the air is thin.

[jancivil]

the phrase "nothing is true, everything is permitted" has so many applications in life. IMO of course.

So everything is false?

That is as profound a statement (William S Burroughs in The Western Lands, repeating a legend 'from the deathbed of Hassan i Sabbah, Master of Assassins') as there is in all literature in my opinion. You give equal validity to all things, it's all a wash, there is no discernment available after a point. Everything is true = nothing is permitted.

Not how things are in the world.

What does that mean?

I have no idea where that's coming from. It's not even a sentence.

Well, everything is permitted, nothing is permitted don't actually translate to the actualities of life. There are -- to me -- no absolutes, so these two statements cannot functionally exist, and they certainly can't simultaneously co-exist. So, what do they mean?

All things have equal validity? In theory, in discussion, yes, but not in life.

Of course, I'm such a pragmatist.

I guess so.
EDIT! (You're kind of opaque to me today, which is my bad, partly.)

I think that absolutes don't 'actually' apply in anything. The statement isn't a factual statement but more along the lines of a thought experiment or something. *If* nothing is true...

[generalstargazer]

the phrase "nothing is true, everything is permitted" has so many applications in life. IMO of course.

So everything is false?

That is as profound a statement (William S Burroughs in The Western Lands, repeating a legend 'from the deathbed of Hassan i Sabbah, Master of Assassins') as there is in all literature in my opinion. You give equal validity to all things, it's all a wash, there is no discernment available after a point. Everything is true = nothing is permitted.

Not how things are in the world.

I disagree. Reality has been proven (at least in physics) to be fluid and not as solid or permament as most think it is.

If you have the mental discipline, tell the Universe what you want, and often times it will oblige in some manner that is rather interesting.

It's too bad most of the time the universe is cold, unforgiving, and unsympathetic. Emotions are transient. People will enjoy the things they connect with emotionally not logically and will give it value at that moment and their feelings will eventually change about it. That's where everything can't be true. I think it's a cop out to say that everything has equal value.

[jancivil]

I think it's suspect to give all 'work' equal validity as all other 'work'. Substitute any verb for 'work', 'music', 'art'. I think it's the worst kind of cop out, and tends to be a justification for continuing to suck. That's going to sting a bit for some who suspect they suck. I know when I suck for instance. That isn't a huge concern to me, I'm not anybody's nurse here.

[justin3am]

Vicious enough?

Not at all. Yours is as valid a position as mine.

I don't take it personally. I know that discourse is a playground and you certainly don't come across as a bully. You're just passionate.

I'm trying not to take this discussion into new-age bs land but... music to me is not special. I have a special relationship with my music and I value the relationship others have developed with my music (and vice versa) but music is not unique to me and therefore IMO, it's not special. The way I cam to that conclusion is largely based on how I perceive "reality".

Perhaps there is objective "truth", I just think we are incapable of perceiving it based on how our consciousness reacts to our surroundings and the effect of every experience which preceded. From that stand point, anything can be permitted to be called music but nothing is truly music. ...if that makes any sense.

What we are displaying when we share our music (or anything that we use to develop a relationship with others/the physical world) is a representation of how we perceive ourselves and the world around us. Honesty may come into play here, but I don't feel I'm anyone to judge what is or isn't an honest expression. Perhaps the least "honest" expressions are actually the most telling?

I guess thats the long winded way of saying, "it's all good."

[Hink]

So everything is false?

That is as profound a statement (William S Burroughs in The Western Lands, repeating a legend 'from the deathbed of Hassan i Sabbah, Master of Assassins') as there is in all literature in my opinion. You give equal validity to all things, it's all a wash, there is no discernment available after a point. Everything is true = nothing is permitted.

Not how things are in the world.

What does that mean?

I have no idea where that's coming from. It's not even a sentence.

Well, everything is permitted, nothing is permitted don't actually translate to the actualities of life. There are -- to me -- no absolutes, so these two statements cannot functionally exist, and they certainly can't simultaneously co-exist. So, what do they mean?

All things have equal validity? In theory, in discussion, yes, but not in life.

Of course, I'm such a pragmatist.

I guess so. A discussion of art is on a different plane than a discusion of the day to day mundanities such as, I don't even know. I don't know what that brings to the discussion, is all.

So, saying some music *isn't good* steps on some toes, that's life, maybe that fits?

no, saying some music is not good doesn't step on anyone's toes unless they are very insecure about their music. But it does put the toes of the one making such a statement right in their own mouth. However arrogance and elitism is even more indictive of insecurity, or in other words I'm okay, you're not okay

[justin3am]

I should have left the typo...

"it's all god"

[jancivil]

@ Hink: honestly I couldn't possibly care less that you perceive my passion and commitment as elitist or arrogant or whatever you like to say. Not to create offense, nothing personal, it's just nothing to me, I'm accustomed to it, it's utterly predictable to hear someone say it in such a discussion. I'm not okay, I'm a hot mess. You're ok if you think you are. That doesn't mean you made something valid yesterday; that to me reuires proof of concept.

@ Justin: that elucidates your position somewhat. I think there are levels of commitment to any endeavor.
There are criteria I've used over half a century of life to detect bullshit, and I believe it amounts to an accurate detector. With say your electronic music, there's obvious commitment to that, regardless of whether or not it's something I put on my iTunes regularly. That's to be encouraged.