Improvising Lead Melodies, how to check if it's correct in theory?

[newageinc]

When improvising and randomly coming up with lead melodies, though it may sound good to me from my perspective, how would I go about checking to see if what I've played falls under the laws of theory, and the right notes are together?

[taotekid]

here are a few Frank Zappa quotes that I hope will inspire you :

"Without deviation from the norm, 'progress' is not possible"

"The Ultimate Rule ought to be:
If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchin;
if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty.
The more your musical experience, the easier it is to define for yourself
what you like and what you don't like.
American radio listeners, raised on a diet of _____ (fill in the blank),
have experienced a musical universe so small they cannot begin to know
what they like."

"The creation and destruction of harmonic and 'statistical' tensions
is essential to the maintenance of compositional drama.
composition (or improvisation) which remains consistent and 'regular' throughout is,
for me, equivalent to watching a movie with only 'good guys' in it,
or eating cottage cheese."

he also apparently said :

"A wrong note played timidly is an embarrasment; a wrong note played with authority is an interpretation.
A wrong note played twice is the beginning of an arrangement."

& Thelonius Monk said :
"There are no wrong notes; some are just more right than others."

& Art Tatum simply said :
"There's no such thing as a wrong note."

[ariston]

You know what they say, "if you have to ask...".

Seriously, why is this important to you? To answer your question "correctly", someone would have to give you a crash course in music theory. And then someone else would have to explain that the "right" theory depends on your point of view: classical counterpoint theory is different from Jazz theory or Twelve-Tone music theory. And ultimately, you would arrive at this point: there IS no wrong or right. All "laws" concerning music theory are not "natural" laws, but rules some people set down at one point. Yes, there appear to be some "universal" aspects to music, like "major keys are uplifting and minor keys are sad", but why bother about this if it feels right to you? Do you need academic approval for what you do?

The guitarist John McLaughlin once said in an interview that he spent an entire year (after studying the guitar) playing melodic lines over certain chords to get a feel for how different notes sounded in the context of these chords. Leaving aside the fact that I find this to be a very anal-retentive way of making music, it can show you the lengths some people will go to.

[ariston]

here are a few Frank Zappa quotes that I hope will inspire you :

Zappa is always the best authority for these questions.

Hey, you actually live in Antibes? I'm insanely jealous!

[saxer]

i like music theory and for me it's an interesting part of recognizing and understanding music and also a field of creativity.

but:
music theory is just a construction, made to describe or explain what you actually hear.

so if it sounds good or bad, it's task of the music theory to tell you why!
music theory is not there to tell you what's right or wrong.
this only happens in the learning process of music theory, when you get some right/wrong answers concerning special things you have to learn.

so if you're not sure if your music is "correct" you should think about your doubt.
maybe its possible to make it better? if so, make it better. if not, it's ok!

[taotekid]

Hey, you actually live in Antibes? I'm insanely jealous!

yes, & it snowed 2 times this winter, which is quite unusual,
& the biggest snowflakes I've ever seen, 2.5 inches on average
it's still unusually chilly these days ...
where do you live ?

[ariston]

Hey, you actually live in Antibes? I'm insanely jealous!

yes, & it snowed 2 times this winter, which is quite unusual,
& the biggest snowflakes I've ever seen, 2.5 inches on average
it's still unusually chilly these days ...
where do you live ?

southern Germany... no lack of snow here . I know about the weather in your area because my parents' best friends live in Antibes, and we've visited them on occasion. They're retired and I think the (relative) cold is getting to them.

Sorry for off-topic, btw.

[dacaumodo]

When improvising and randomly coming up with lead melodies, though it may sound good to me from my perspective, how would I go about checking to see if what I've played falls under the laws of theory, and the right notes are together?

This:

http://ravenspiral.com/rsg2mt/rsg2mt.pdf

can help you, starting with chapter one. It will probably answer most of your questions.

[kbaccki]

If you really care about what others are going to think of your leads and melodies, just post your tunes and ask others for opinions. If enough people say something like "that Eb there sounds kinda wierd", then maybe they're hearing something you're not (or can't?), or vice versa. I agree 100% with what others have said about not getting hung up on theory, but I'll also add that there are a lot of people out there that think Thelonious Monk's ideas and playing sound like crap. Really, in this day and age, I don't think there's anything you could come up with that wouldn't make sense to at least a few people... So go mostly with your gut, and your ears, and your own artistry.

[newageinc]

Great answers guys, thanks.

The point of me asking is, I recently had an opportunity to play some of my tracks to someone who's producing songs at the top of the charts right now. Out of a 10 song demo, he picked 2 that sounded good to him, and advised me that my drums are good on all of the tracks, but the music (my own chords and melodies) need work.

I tend to go with my gut, and go with what sounds good to me, but this doesn't accurately translate to others liking it as well, and I need to find a balance of the two, to have a legitimate shot at getting a break. I have to find a balance of what I like, and what the norm or rules are that will be familiar to the public's ear, and they are more likely to like it from the familiarity...I guess? I need to step outside of my personal liking to a track, because I created it, and be able to tell if other people will really like it as well, will it sound like a hit on my demo.

I wanted to do something different, something that would make me stand out, with an exclusive sound, maybe I've been making music for myself and to my own liking, while I should be thinking of how others will hear it, and need to stick with the typical pop structures. I've recently been recording songs in I V vi IV, safely improvising simple melodies on top of the chords, and the results have been kinda boring, but admittedly sound closer to a hit than my previous gut feeling efforts.

I knew very little theory until recently, but I've been able to play by ear for a while.
Any more advice and comments greatly appreciated...

[yellowfever]

Just use your ears; who gives a stuff if other people think if it 'sounds right' ?

[kbaccki]

to have a legitimate shot at getting a break

Oh. Well, that changes things considerably. If you're trying to hit on something then your best bet is to throw your own inclinations, preferences, opinions, biases, and indvidualism out the window and a.) do whatever others (i.e., those with the money and connections) tell you to do, and b.) do whatever it is that people at large will pay money for. Item "b" and item "a" are closely related, so much so that if you have one covered then you most likely have the other covered, and vice versa. E.g., any old tune with lots of autotune or vocoder (or better yet: both!) will have a much greater chance at commercial success than a comparable tune without autotune or vocoder. The buying public loves robot voices! It's a proven fact. If this makes you cringe, then look yourself in the mirror and say these words: "I am not prepared for commericial success".

[newageinc]

kbaccki, both of your responses, a search of a middle ground between sticking with my gut and artistry, but giving the people what they want too, this is what I am seeking. I always thought there wasn't really a right and wrong when it comes to music, but after researching theory more, I thought maybe a few notes that sound good to me in my productions, sound off to someone else. Though, the factor of it sounding different is part of the reason I like it in the first place. It's all I think about lately, this quest to make my music better. Paying attention to chord progressions, and why I love specific songs so much, has helped a great deal in getting me closer to the ideal sound I'm after.

[jsaras]

If you are a natural genius, "use your ear" is terrific advice. Most of us have to sweat a little harder in life.

"Knowledge must lead intuition" (Bill Evans). I think that the myth of people accidentally stumbling onto great music is indeed a myth. Play me any great music and I'll show you someone who worked hard to learn how to write, play, sing, etc.

So I'll offer the unpopular advice of "use your will power" to learn as musch as you possibly can. It is the only sure path to success.

If you are just writing commercial pop songs you really need to understand the basics of major and minor keys (scales and progressions). If you want to go deeper into composition I would highly recommend a study of the Equal Interval System (www.equalinterval.com). It has opened up many doors for me compositionally that I didn't even know existed.

J

[buckshead]

This has been the most sensible discussion for ages.

I think it was H L Mencken who wrote "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public", but it applies generally.

Listen to all the cr-p out there that sells, its 99% rubbish. But if you want to make money you gotta go with the flow. If you want to true to your self, starve in a garret. Or do both.