Vintage is overrated. Lesson learned(rant)

[Funksploitation]

+1 sockofgold.

This whole thread points to a nagging question for me: why do some people look for that "phat analog sound" - with tube compression, tube hum, tape hiss, or whatever - in order to make sterile robot music based on 4-on-the-floor synthetic drums, sequenced saw synths, and samples?

I call bollocks. If you want the "next new sound" - not that there is now or ever will be any such thing, as you'll learn once you've actually listened to something other than whatever currently purports to BE the "next new sound" - why in hell do you want analog anything, whether hardware or virtual? I strongly suspect that anyone believing in the "next new sound" will find that the only thing "next" is unlistenable sonic hash, and they'll wake up to the inescapasble fact that it makes people grit their teeth and nobody will give a damn.

You're confused and have no idea what you really want, and get no sympathy whatever from me. I want analog because the music I make is retro, it is a tribute to older styles, and an analog sound is entirely appropriate to it.

[Architeuthis]

I want analog because the music I make is retro, it is a tribute to older styles, and an analog sound is entirely appropriate to it.

The usage of and composition with analog synths was in its infancy back in the day of "retro older styles"; where synthesizers were underutilized in my opinion. Basic boops and bleeps, boring sounds. What I'm trying to do is have the raw sound of real analog circuits to create mature electronic music of today, where the synth patches can create a large dynamic of expression, like the human voice, a saxaphone, or cello, which even today is hard to come by. With analog synths, this is easier than with digital synths because of the unpredictable nature and character of an analog synth. I find digital synths to do exactly what you expect them to do which is only *sometimes* a good thing.

[Synthbuilder]

Repairing analogue synths is getting harder. The synths themselves are now very old and all sorts of things are failing on them now. Parts are getting hard to get - maybe not the semiconductors and passives but the mechanical stuff is difficult to source. There a few dedicated chaps making clones but many of the parts I need to get synths going are no longer there any more. I can make do in many cases but some of the repairs I have been doing have been very time consuming and expensive for the owner.

We still have yet to see a great sounding analogue polysynth equivalent to the JP8 or OB-X. With a couple of colleagues I looked into getting a big polysynth manufactured - we even had Axel Hartmann design the case - but the cost of getting it made was quite staggering. We tried to pitch it around 2500GBP but we just couldn't make any money from it unless we cut so many corners in build and parts quality. In the end the whole design fell by the wayside.

On a different note; although some of the modern analogues are a little flat sounding compared to some of the older classics the growing modular market is full of lots of great sounding gear. Yeah, I know, I would say that...

[living sounds]

Repairing analogue synths is getting harder. The synths themselves are now very old and all sorts of things are failing on them now. Parts are getting hard to get - maybe not the semiconductors and passives but the mechanical stuff is difficult to source. There a few dedicated chaps making clones but many of the parts I need to get synths going are no longer there any more. I can make do in many cases but some of the repairs I have been doing have been very time consuming and expensive for the owner.

We still have yet to see a great sounding analogue polysynth equivalent to the JP8 or OB-X. With a couple of colleagues I looked into getting a big polysynth manufactured - we even had Axel Hartmann design the case - but the cost of getting it made was quite staggering. We tried to pitch it around 2500GBP but we just couldn't make any money from it unless we cut so many corners in build and parts quality. In the end the whole design fell by the wayside.

On a different note; although some of the modern analogues are a little flat sounding compared to some of the older classics the growing modular market is full of lots of great sounding gear. Yeah, I know, I would say that...

How's the Orbital coming on? Will it really be availible this month? Any audio demos yet? It would be great to know some more about the design, like are the VCOs discrete, are the envelopes analog as well etc. I guess it sounds as good as your other stuff, so I'll have to build one.

[living sounds]

Oh, and what about the midi implimentation?

[Synthbuilder]

How's the Orbital coming on? Will it really be availible this month?

The full version of the Orbital is currently on hold. Demand for our 3U module series has exceeded expectations so we're gearing up for more wee modules. That's taken time from the rack project schedule and the full size Orbital has suffered. I must get the webpage updated with this news.

However, I never really expected the Orbital to sell in any great numbers - it's a high end item and it's going to cost a lot to both make any prototypes and get any production run going. So right now we're focusing on the smaller faster selling items first.

Paul's in the middle of getting a new workshop built and unexpected problems with the builders have delayed this. Because of this any major metal work jobs, like the ready made Filtrex and TM3030, are also on hold right now. The good news on this front is that the new workshop space is now nearly ready. I'm very much looking forward seeing what Paul can come up with.

We are, however, developing a little 1U rack version of the Orbital and work is progressing well on that. When that will be ready I'm not going to say right now.

Finally, the move from BI TT pots to 16mm pots in the 5U modules is also taking my R&D time from other projects. But the nice thing about this work is that it is giving me the chance to revisit some of the older 5U module designs and improve them.

Midi implementation on the Orbital is pretty sparse. It's velocity, aftertouch, mod wheel stuff only. The little 1U rack version will have more than this as a lot more of it is software controlled.

Tony

[mcnoone]

I'm just leary when people say they like "retro analog" sounds.
Then I listen to this so-called retro analog thing, and realize it sounds like mudd.
No high end at all. Just bottom feeding, bass hogging sounds that are so bland and unmoving.
Only my opinion of course.

[living sounds]

I'm just leary when people say they like "retro analog" sounds.
Then I listen to this so-called retro analog thing, and realize it sounds like mudd.
No high end at all. Just bottom feeding, bass hogging sounds that are so bland and unmoving.
Only my opinion of course.

Actually, the opposite is true. The good vintage synths have this sparkling, fizzing, very alive sounding high end. The more recent stuff mostly hasn't got it anymore. Here's a little comparison between a Moog Little Phatty, technosaurus microcon II and Roland SH-2 I made some time ago:
www.scherer.de/Download/Phatty_Microcon_SH-2.wav

[audiojunkie]

Chiming in to agree with the general public....

Vintage is (IMHO) very over-rated. A modern system with a modern set of tools can do everything that the older systems can, and much more, as well as more reliably. I'd rather have a nice computer full of high quality plugins (or a Receptor), than an ancient non-MIDI, non-preset storing, voltage controlled, warehouse sized, constantly broken down, pile of patch cables.

Convenience + quality = more productivity.

--Sean

and then again...

[vurt]

nothing is overrated.
its either useful to you or it isnt.

what works for the individual wont work for the masses.

[mcnoone]

Actually, the opposite is true. The good vintage synths have this sparkling, fizzing, very alive sounding high end. The more recent stuff mostly hasn't got it anymore. Here's a little comparison between a Moog Little Phatty, technosaurus microcon II and Roland SH-2 I made some time ago:
www.scherer.de/Download/Phatty_Microcon_SH-2.wav

Thanks for the mp3. Sounds great.
I was referring more to some peoples emulations of retro analog using "softsynths".
Not all, as some software emulations do come close, while many others will say "warm" analog sounds, but they just sound flat and muddy.
I really like all kinds of synth sounds, but favor the sounds more balanced in the high end of the spectrum.
If I had a hardware synth studio, I would definitely want an analog, and a digital synth setup.
I do find many soft synth presets trying to emulate that analog sound, and coming up with bland, muddy stuff though too often.

[thecontrolcentre]

nothing is overrated.
its either useful to you or it isnt.

[/thread]

[zerocrossing]

I'm just leary when people say they like "retro analog" sounds.
Then I listen to this so-called retro analog thing, and realize it sounds like mudd.
No high end at all. Just bottom feeding, bass hogging sounds that are so bland and unmoving.
Only my opinion of course.

Actually, the opposite is true. The good vintage synths have this sparkling, fizzing, very alive sounding high end. The more recent stuff mostly hasn't got it anymore. Here's a little comparison between a Moog Little Phatty, technosaurus microcon II and Roland SH-2 I made some time ago:
www.scherer.de/Download/Phatty_Microcon_SH-2.wav

I love examples like this that sound like they could have been made with any decent VA VSTi. How are these sounds not bland? Trust me, I'm sure in a composition they would be useful, but then we're getting into the path of considering context. There's nothing more I like than to take a huge lush pad out of something like Zebra or Gladiator and juxtapose it to a blip from Mr. Alias or bass from DCAM

[Acid Mitch]

I love examples like this that sound like they could have been made with any decent VA VSTi. How are these sounds not bland?

Do you have examples of a V.A doing those sounds ?

[zerocrossing]

I love examples like this that sound like they could have been made with any decent VA VSTi. How are these sounds not bland?

Do you have examples of a V.A doing those sounds ?

Oh yeah, I made a few with those exact sounds... but my dog ate it. Try this in the meantime.

http://www.admiralquality.com/products/ ... ase_Me.mp3