Which CLOSED headphones do you use?
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- KVRAF
- 13446 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
Another HD-25 guy here.
I'm not saying that they're necessarily the "best", but I find them to sound rather "tight" and IMO it's pretty easy to spot weak things in your mixes because of that "tight", "focused" sound quality. I usually also prefer them over "circumaural" (thanks for that term, DeepFiber) ones, especially under warm conditions.
The clear downsides are the actual pads they're coming with by default (they rub off quickly and you will want to replace them with something not at "plasticy" anyway) and the - IMO at least - *way* too short cable (and Sennheiser is asking obscenely high prices for longer replacements). The standard 1.5m cable isn't even doing the job once you stand up to play guitar or so. So you need to add another 40-50 bucks to the price, at least after a while (and if you ever go for them, DON'T buy the spiral cable, it's soooo heavy that it's fine enough to rip the phones off your head, a clear misconception that even Sennheiser agrees with, so they've sent me a free plain replacement). Regarding comfort, as has been said, there's better ones, but I got used to it and maybe this sometimes even turns into an advance as you may not wear them for too long, which certainly is one of the not too shiny ideas with any pair of headphones.
Fwiw, I have another pair of AKG 240s MkII, and I sometimes just wear them to get a different feel or so (they're rather open, though) or whenever I need to hear the doorbell, phone, etc. (unfortunately, they need a way larger input level than the Sennheisers).
Regarding In-Ears: I have a pair of (molded) ones and all I can say is that it's not exactly a great idea to use them for any studio duties. Hasn't got anything to do with the sound or so but simply with the two facts that a) they're rather uncomfortable to be taken in/out quickly and b) that they're really no good for your ear "health". Ear wax is produced a lot faster when wearing In-Ears, certainly not what you want (and this has been scientifically proven). I use my In-Ears live regularly, and after just a two hour show or so, my ears feel all "sweaty" (maybe it's even "waxy" already) inside.
They might be great for tracking next to a loud guitar amp or so, but whenever I have a choice, I rather use the HD-25s.
Anyway, I can only highly second DeepFibers statement of actually trying all of the contenders (plus some that are out of your price range) out. Just make sure to have a CD with a mix of music you're into with you, preferably some of your own work, too. And do that test in a well sorted music shop. HiFi guys will usually only irritate you and most likely tell you some myths, so you may not even believe your ears after a while anymore. But in any case, do such a real life test!
- Sascha
I'm not saying that they're necessarily the "best", but I find them to sound rather "tight" and IMO it's pretty easy to spot weak things in your mixes because of that "tight", "focused" sound quality. I usually also prefer them over "circumaural" (thanks for that term, DeepFiber) ones, especially under warm conditions.
The clear downsides are the actual pads they're coming with by default (they rub off quickly and you will want to replace them with something not at "plasticy" anyway) and the - IMO at least - *way* too short cable (and Sennheiser is asking obscenely high prices for longer replacements). The standard 1.5m cable isn't even doing the job once you stand up to play guitar or so. So you need to add another 40-50 bucks to the price, at least after a while (and if you ever go for them, DON'T buy the spiral cable, it's soooo heavy that it's fine enough to rip the phones off your head, a clear misconception that even Sennheiser agrees with, so they've sent me a free plain replacement). Regarding comfort, as has been said, there's better ones, but I got used to it and maybe this sometimes even turns into an advance as you may not wear them for too long, which certainly is one of the not too shiny ideas with any pair of headphones.
Fwiw, I have another pair of AKG 240s MkII, and I sometimes just wear them to get a different feel or so (they're rather open, though) or whenever I need to hear the doorbell, phone, etc. (unfortunately, they need a way larger input level than the Sennheisers).
Regarding In-Ears: I have a pair of (molded) ones and all I can say is that it's not exactly a great idea to use them for any studio duties. Hasn't got anything to do with the sound or so but simply with the two facts that a) they're rather uncomfortable to be taken in/out quickly and b) that they're really no good for your ear "health". Ear wax is produced a lot faster when wearing In-Ears, certainly not what you want (and this has been scientifically proven). I use my In-Ears live regularly, and after just a two hour show or so, my ears feel all "sweaty" (maybe it's even "waxy" already) inside.
They might be great for tracking next to a loud guitar amp or so, but whenever I have a choice, I rather use the HD-25s.
Anyway, I can only highly second DeepFibers statement of actually trying all of the contenders (plus some that are out of your price range) out. Just make sure to have a CD with a mix of music you're into with you, preferably some of your own work, too. And do that test in a well sorted music shop. HiFi guys will usually only irritate you and most likely tell you some myths, so you may not even believe your ears after a while anymore. But in any case, do such a real life test!
- Sascha
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5268 posts since 16 May, 2002 from Brisbane , Australia
Yep, that's exactly what I just did. All I really ended up doing was reducing my options. I ruled out a few. Which are the HDs again (Sony?)?Sascha Franck wrote:Anyway, I can only highly second DeepFibers statement of actually trying all of the contenders (plus some that are out of your price range) out. Just make sure to have a CD with a mix of music you're into with you, preferably some of your own work, too. And do that test in a well sorted music shop. HiFi guys will usually only irritate you and most likely tell you some myths, so you may not even believe your ears after a while anymore. But in any case, do such a real life test!
Just to throw a spanner in the terminology works, from what I can tell circumaural refers to the fact that the ear piece goes around the ear, and nothing to do with closed or open. So what I am after are circumaural closed headphones.
Intel Core i7 8700K, 16gb, Windows 10 Pro, Focusrite Scarlet 6i6
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- KVRAF
- 7217 posts since 21 Aug, 2004 from Trondheim, Norway
I like my DT770M's, except they came with a volume pot that I had to remove after a year and the padding falls apart (but that might have to do with my 5-year-old).
If noise exclusion is a major point they're unbeatable. If not then don't get the M version, they pinch your skull a bit too hard for long sessions. The regular Pros are more comfortable.
If noise exclusion is a major point they're unbeatable. If not then don't get the M version, they pinch your skull a bit too hard for long sessions. The regular Pros are more comfortable.
Rakkervoksen
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- KVRAF
- 5666 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium
I've noticed that about my HD280s as well. Initailly I was put off by ( what I would call) extra 'definition' as I was used to some old Audio Technica's that have lost a bit in their overall performance, but now, I really like the HD280s. I was also not keen on the bass initailly, as it felt out of phase somehow, but it seems that everything is ok now.chj wrote: I have the Sennheiser 280's, definitely good for blocking out noise, you have to tap me on the shoulder to get my attention when they're on. But I AB'd them against some others and they don't necessarily have the best soundstage. A little too sterile, clinical. Which may be fine for some uses, but some of the other headphones had more natural sounding space.
The noise attenuation is indeed excellent, up to 32dB, which compares well with Dt770Ms, which have 35dB, according to Beyerdynamic.
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- KVRist
- 447 posts since 23 Mar, 2008 from so whos got a blowfelt?
If i were you i would not trust my ears, at least not for monitoring!
I mean think about it, you have 5 differerent phones to listen to and you will choose the one that sounds "best" now what if best psyhologically means bloated bass and treble? You cannot judge phones in a store unless they are for entertainment purposes only, you can easily judge what gives the most pleasant sound, but this is not what you are after. If you were to get a pair of monitors or reference phones you would need a measurement, something f**king solid, something that can be proved over and over again, anywhere, something real.
you know what im saying?
http://www.headphone.com/learning-cente ... Headphones
on this site you can build graphs on freq response and similar, now in this graph I have sennheiser hd600 and akg 601 as reference and this will be your reference too, since these are the closest you will get at linearity from headphone.
headphone.com --> the f**king graphs.
I personally think the hd650 is the reference if you deduce the bass bloat +5db under 1khz and they sound just like my custom monitors, that i had measured by professionals in a professional lab, whos profession is designing and measuring speakers, the bass under 1khz is a little bloated on the 650ies, but the rest is solid. and i have the print to f**king prove it, and i was there when it was measured (measured with a 8k$ bruel&kjaer calibrated mic), and except the bass bloat the hd650ies are linear. IMO. According to my ears. I have had this system for years.
Now back to headphones measuremsnts now first you will se that the k271 are bloated in the 700hz range by 3-4 db thats double the acoustic energy! they also seems boosted about 2-3 db in the treble.
the akgs 271 have massive f**king massive distortion peaks, as all akgs..(hd650 have nothing!!)
the way a square wave is reproduced in any Akg vs any of the Sennheisers (hd25/650) is far far worse with the akgs,
I was seriously considering the k601 but as you will se the hd25/hd650 is vastly superior to whatever akg has produced, ever!
its time to lay off the f**king wishful thinking for a while, and get serious, there are only 4 cans to consider as good, and those are the k701, and 601 where the 601 is more linear, and then theres the hd 650 and 600, where the hd 600 is more linear, but both kick akgs ass severely in most things.
I would get the hd 600 or the k601 for monitoring, or the hd 25 if you want soundproof, most of the rest is shit. dont even get me started on beyer or Atechnica or anything else, is shit.
I mean think about it, you have 5 differerent phones to listen to and you will choose the one that sounds "best" now what if best psyhologically means bloated bass and treble? You cannot judge phones in a store unless they are for entertainment purposes only, you can easily judge what gives the most pleasant sound, but this is not what you are after. If you were to get a pair of monitors or reference phones you would need a measurement, something f**king solid, something that can be proved over and over again, anywhere, something real.
you know what im saying?
http://www.headphone.com/learning-cente ... Headphones
on this site you can build graphs on freq response and similar, now in this graph I have sennheiser hd600 and akg 601 as reference and this will be your reference too, since these are the closest you will get at linearity from headphone.
headphone.com --> the f**king graphs.
I personally think the hd650 is the reference if you deduce the bass bloat +5db under 1khz and they sound just like my custom monitors, that i had measured by professionals in a professional lab, whos profession is designing and measuring speakers, the bass under 1khz is a little bloated on the 650ies, but the rest is solid. and i have the print to f**king prove it, and i was there when it was measured (measured with a 8k$ bruel&kjaer calibrated mic), and except the bass bloat the hd650ies are linear. IMO. According to my ears. I have had this system for years.
Now back to headphones measuremsnts now first you will se that the k271 are bloated in the 700hz range by 3-4 db thats double the acoustic energy! they also seems boosted about 2-3 db in the treble.
the akgs 271 have massive f**king massive distortion peaks, as all akgs..(hd650 have nothing!!)
the way a square wave is reproduced in any Akg vs any of the Sennheisers (hd25/650) is far far worse with the akgs,
I was seriously considering the k601 but as you will se the hd25/hd650 is vastly superior to whatever akg has produced, ever!
its time to lay off the f**king wishful thinking for a while, and get serious, there are only 4 cans to consider as good, and those are the k701, and 601 where the 601 is more linear, and then theres the hd 650 and 600, where the hd 600 is more linear, but both kick akgs ass severely in most things.
I would get the hd 600 or the k601 for monitoring, or the hd 25 if you want soundproof, most of the rest is shit. dont even get me started on beyer or Atechnica or anything else, is shit.
It turned out the kittens mittens were hidden in the cats pyjamas all along.
suck my dongle
suck my dongle
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- KVRist
- 447 posts since 23 Mar, 2008 from so whos got a blowfelt?
Still you will se that the h650 literally PISSES ALL OVER all other phones regarding distortion, were talking 20-30dB here (as much as 50db compared to akg)! and the hd 25 is not far behind, but far far ahead of everything else made by anyone on this planet for this purpose!
Now what were you considering?
the thing is: the hd25 performs very good but its still a closed dj headphone, its almost as good as the 650, but its closed and its a f**king dj phone, but still way way better than most of the (literally) shit out there. Just look at eh distortion 271 vs hd25 and square wave at 50hz!!
Now what were you considering?
the thing is: the hd25 performs very good but its still a closed dj headphone, its almost as good as the 650, but its closed and its a f**king dj phone, but still way way better than most of the (literally) shit out there. Just look at eh distortion 271 vs hd25 and square wave at 50hz!!
It turned out the kittens mittens were hidden in the cats pyjamas all along.
suck my dongle
suck my dongle
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5268 posts since 16 May, 2002 from Brisbane , Australia
Thanks DeepFiber. I was trying music of my own and music I am familiar with to try and get phones that make the music sound like I expect it to from listening at home etc. That graph is a real eye opener so I'll be checking it out thoroughly, and doing some price comparisons (yes unfortunately price is a consideration).
Intel Core i7 8700K, 16gb, Windows 10 Pro, Focusrite Scarlet 6i6
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- KVRAF
- 3389 posts since 19 Mar, 2008 from germany
@ DeepFiber:
Most fascinating is the "Harmonic Distortion of a 500Hz Sine Wave Input" plot: The winner is - with a big distance - the HD600.
I found this result just by listening in A-B comparison of different headphones. This plot emphasizes what I found out very impressively!
Most fascinating is the "Harmonic Distortion of a 500Hz Sine Wave Input" plot: The winner is - with a big distance - the HD600.
I found this result just by listening in A-B comparison of different headphones. This plot emphasizes what I found out very impressively!
free mp3s + info: andy-enroe.de songs + weird stuff: enroe.de
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5268 posts since 16 May, 2002 from Brisbane , Australia
I probably should mention again, I need circumaural, closed headphones.DeepFiber wrote:I would get the hd 600 or the k601 for monitoring, or the hd 25 if you want soundproof, most of the rest is shit. dont even get me started on beyer or Atechnica or anything else, is shit.
Intel Core i7 8700K, 16gb, Windows 10 Pro, Focusrite Scarlet 6i6
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- KVRAF
- 42529 posts since 21 Dec, 2005
morelia wrote:I probably should mention again, I need circumaural, closed headphones.DeepFiber wrote:I would get the hd 600 or the k601 for monitoring, or the hd 25 if you want soundproof, most of the rest is shit. dont even get me started on beyer or Atechnica or anything else, is shit.
Yeah the closed in huge capitol letters just wasn't enough -
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5268 posts since 16 May, 2002 from Brisbane , Australia
hibidy wrote:morelia wrote:I probably should mention again, I need circumaural, closed headphones.DeepFiber wrote:I would get the hd 600 or the k601 for monitoring, or the hd 25 if you want soundproof, most of the rest is shit. dont even get me started on beyer or Atechnica or anything else, is shit.
Maybe not, but I appreciate all advice. Just wanted to point out that even if the best sounding phones are open, it won't matter how cheap they are, I still want closed. 
Intel Core i7 8700K, 16gb, Windows 10 Pro, Focusrite Scarlet 6i6
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5268 posts since 16 May, 2002 from Brisbane , Australia
I didn't take it that way. Just wanted to make sure the advice was appreciated even if not exactly what I am afterhibidy wrote:I really wasn't trying to be an arse, I just think it's kinda funny that you've got "closed" in caps and people are talking about open cans.
Intel Core i7 8700K, 16gb, Windows 10 Pro, Focusrite Scarlet 6i6
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- KVRAF
- 2930 posts since 29 May, 2009 from New Zealand