I use saturation heaps, normaly either from "Feric" or from the "Fruity Limiter", It sounds like a pleasant soundy fizzy/sparkly distortion in the high end that just makes things sound better,
but what is it exactly?
How does it work?
What's it doing?
Thanks!
Can someone please explain "saturation"?
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an-electric-heart an-electric-heart https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=182734 - KVRAF
- 2513 posts since 13 Jun, 2008 from Napier,New Zealand
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- KVRAF
- 2138 posts since 8 Feb, 2007
Professional technicians are assessed by the abilities they possess.
Amateur technicians are assessed by the tools they possess - and the amount of those tools, with an obvious preference to the latest hyped ones.
(Gabe Dumbbell)
Amateur technicians are assessed by the tools they possess - and the amount of those tools, with an obvious preference to the latest hyped ones.
(Gabe Dumbbell)
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- KVRian
- 830 posts since 9 Aug, 2004 from Berlin
"Saturation" is a phenomenon, (sound amplitude reaching the limit of a given device).Liero wrote:What's the difference between saturation, distortion and overdrive?
You have tape saturation, transitor saturation, tube saturation, etc.
"distortion" as a phenomenon happens everytime the amplitude changes after passing through an effect or anything.
If you pass a pure sine (one freq only) through something and the output shows more frequencies than the sine freq, even at extremely low levels, there is a distortion, even though you do not always "hear" it (like in some DI boxes or preamps).
"distortion" as an effect is used to discribe a type of effect that transforms waveform amplitude dramaticaly. Distortions often use saturation properties of transitors and other components. But getting back to the phenomenon, if you send a wave through a formula like (x+10)^2, it doesn't involve any clipping (saturation) but is still a form of distortion since it'll change the harmonic content.
"overdrive" is more commonly used as a classification for distortion ( = not modulation FX nor filters) stompboxes that aimed at pushing the amp into distortion, or add a distortion that is not too destructive (tube screamer is a a good example).
"overdrive" is really a classification into the distortions (against "fuzz", "octaver" for instance), and is a bit hard to discriminate sometimes, like some genres in music. I guess the aim of this classification is mainly to give a rough idea to the musician of what he can expect from a given unit. But some stompbox pedals are classified both as distortion and overdrives so the limit is blurry.
The Tube Screamer is definitely an overdrive because it makes the sound distort but doesn't make it clip extremely (the input buffer and output buffer of the tube screamer have a saturation point obviously (transistors) but when playing a guitar through it, you should never touch those limits much.
A Big muff on the contrary is definitely not an overdrive, since it pushes the transistors inside it into pretty hard clipping. You won't play very complex chords through that kind of effect.
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- KVRAF
- 8700 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand
To keep it simple,What's the difference between saturation, distortion and overdrive?
Saturation = softclipping + distortion with few harmonics (I vaguely remember some definition as saturation only inducing 2nd order harmonics?). Generally accepted as tape overload.
Distortion generally is accepted as heavy hard knee clipping with lots of harmonics over the top.
Overdrive = soft knee distortion with few harmonics over the top.
I suppose you could say:
Tape saturation = not very noisy yet musical distortion
Overdrive = noisy but musical distortion
Distortion = loud and noisy tending to unmusical distortion
It's all distortion to differing degrees. It's all about the flavour
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- KVRAF
- 8700 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand
By the way - these varying types of distortion are basically what limiters do. Saturation is subtle limiting, overdrive is unsubtle but not nasty limiting, and distortion is just loud noisy and very obvious limiting. Soft and hard knee has alot to do with the flavour of limiting. Personally I don't think enough beginners appreciate how destructive limiting is/can be. It's not a separate effect - it's distortion by another name.
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- KVRian
- 1290 posts since 13 Mar, 2007
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- KVRAF
- 4692 posts since 28 Jan, 2003 from In these very interwebs
Essentially different flavours of the same thing. 'Saturation' usually refers to a (more) subtle effect that leaves most of the audio characteristics intact. Overdrive is a very obvious form of saturation, often sounding like 'raunch' or 'classic rock'. Distortion is even more extreme than overdrive.Liero wrote:What's the difference between saturation, distortion and overdrive?
-Kim.
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- KVRist
- 98 posts since 1 Sep, 2005
Some decent description given already
I can add.
Saturation as mainly to do with tape. It really shouldnt be used in any other way because there are clearer terms for other devices. It would help to think of what saturation means in regards to liquid or anything else besides audio.
Picture bread becoming saturated with water. So think of the capacity of what tape can hold reaching the point where it cant hold anymore. When this is reached the sound on the tape is saturated. What the electronics in the tape machine do to compensate is not called saturation BTW.
Another way I can help to understand the sound of saturation compared to a sound I know you have heard is Mic overload. Mic overload is very similar to saturation in that there is a point when the capsule cannot take anymore amplitude(perhaps in a certain frequency area or almost everywhere). We all have heard this at train station when some dingbat screams into the little mic..haha. If you can imagine what is happening you will see how saturation and distortion are linked--they are not the same thing in any way shape or form and more than punch and bruise on the face are the same thing. One causes the other.
But that sound flattening of mic overload, I thought, was always a good way of picturing saturation if you dont yet recognize it. Of course they are very different in sound but they are both a case where too much sound has hit--and a flattening will occur.
I can add.
Saturation as mainly to do with tape. It really shouldnt be used in any other way because there are clearer terms for other devices. It would help to think of what saturation means in regards to liquid or anything else besides audio.
Picture bread becoming saturated with water. So think of the capacity of what tape can hold reaching the point where it cant hold anymore. When this is reached the sound on the tape is saturated. What the electronics in the tape machine do to compensate is not called saturation BTW.
Another way I can help to understand the sound of saturation compared to a sound I know you have heard is Mic overload. Mic overload is very similar to saturation in that there is a point when the capsule cannot take anymore amplitude(perhaps in a certain frequency area or almost everywhere). We all have heard this at train station when some dingbat screams into the little mic..haha. If you can imagine what is happening you will see how saturation and distortion are linked--they are not the same thing in any way shape or form and more than punch and bruise on the face are the same thing. One causes the other.
But that sound flattening of mic overload, I thought, was always a good way of picturing saturation if you dont yet recognize it. Of course they are very different in sound but they are both a case where too much sound has hit--and a flattening will occur.
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- KVRist
- 484 posts since 8 May, 2007
Hi awesome-force,
Consider a sequence of numbers: 1, 2, 3, 4, ...
Multiply these by 2 and you get: 2, 4, 6, 8, ...
Saturation is when you multiply the sequence by a decreasing number, first 2, then 1.9, then 1.8, etc. and you get, for example: 2, 3.8, 5.4, 6.8, ...
If you plot 1, 2, 3, 4, ... versus 2, 4, 6, 8, ... on a graph, you get a straight line. If you plot 1, 2, 3, 4, ... versus 2, 3.8, 5.4, 6.8, ... on a graph, you'll see it bends down like a tree branch with too much weight.
Saturation occurs in electronic devices as a consequence of what could be regarded as too much "crowding" of various types. In tubes, for example, you can have so many electrons traveling from cathode (source) to plate (destination) that they interfere with each other's travel, so to speak. As a result, you can have less of a current increase for output than you might expect for a particular increase in input.
As others have described, overdrive etc. are extensions of this concept. If you go far enough with increasing the input, you can eventually get, for example: 2, 3.8, 5.4, 6.8, 6.8, 6.8, ... where the output simply stops increasing.
The reason saturation sounds different is that when you "bend the curve," you create additional frequency components as a result. The more the bending or limiting, the more harmonics and/or the larger their contributions to the sound.
Needless to say, depending on exactly how one "bends the curve," one can produce very different sounds in the output.
Regards,
Dave Clark
Somewhat more of a simple explanation:awesome-force wrote:
but what is it exactly?
How does it work?
What's it doing?
Consider a sequence of numbers: 1, 2, 3, 4, ...
Multiply these by 2 and you get: 2, 4, 6, 8, ...
Saturation is when you multiply the sequence by a decreasing number, first 2, then 1.9, then 1.8, etc. and you get, for example: 2, 3.8, 5.4, 6.8, ...
If you plot 1, 2, 3, 4, ... versus 2, 4, 6, 8, ... on a graph, you get a straight line. If you plot 1, 2, 3, 4, ... versus 2, 3.8, 5.4, 6.8, ... on a graph, you'll see it bends down like a tree branch with too much weight.
Saturation occurs in electronic devices as a consequence of what could be regarded as too much "crowding" of various types. In tubes, for example, you can have so many electrons traveling from cathode (source) to plate (destination) that they interfere with each other's travel, so to speak. As a result, you can have less of a current increase for output than you might expect for a particular increase in input.
As others have described, overdrive etc. are extensions of this concept. If you go far enough with increasing the input, you can eventually get, for example: 2, 3.8, 5.4, 6.8, 6.8, 6.8, ... where the output simply stops increasing.
The reason saturation sounds different is that when you "bend the curve," you create additional frequency components as a result. The more the bending or limiting, the more harmonics and/or the larger their contributions to the sound.
Needless to say, depending on exactly how one "bends the curve," one can produce very different sounds in the output.
Regards,
Dave Clark