Another scale question

[rbarata]

Hello, my friends

A simple question (hope the answer is simple too )

How do you know which mode to use when playing a scale on top of a chord progression?

Thanks

[jopy]

try to figure out which chord is the tonic (I), and from there, play the associated major or minor scale (depending on the quality of the tonic). this isn't always easy, because one would ordinarily say: look for dominant chords, those are on the 5th degree of the scale, so the note down a fifth is the root of the tonic. in other words, look for the V chord, and that will tell you where the I chord is. in common practice period music, there is only one dominant chord in a key.

however, the rules don't apply to a lot of music. the dominant 7th chord can also show up as a secondary dominant (e.g., on the second degree of the scale, serving as a lead-in to the V chord). in blues music it's not unusual to have ALL the chords played as dominant 7ths (so it would be I7, IV7, and V7). modal music doesn't have functional dominant chords at all. lots of styles of dance music don't use the 7th degree of the dominant chord, so you can't easily identify it without really thinking about the context of the song overall.

so, there are some general guidelines, but it's often a matter of some analysis to figure out exactly what scale or mode to use over a chord progression. a lot of the time it just comes down to working it out with your ear and your instincts.

[rbarata]

So, this is agood example of the old say: Rules are made to be broken.

[wrench45us]

Mark Levine's 'Jazz Theory' book goes into some detail about this very question.

I believe the Berklee Chord Scale system also goes into similar rundown.

They would have us believe that some songs would have one changing scales/ modes with every chord change.

I haven't picked up the book that goes with the Berklee Chord Scale system because I'm not all that eager to be overwhelemed with information that may or may not be useful.

It seems like a simple question, and jmeier has provided one of the simpler, more useful answers -- find the home key and go there.
Mark Levine's book attempts to provide a unified field theory for harmony by proposing one set of principles that unite the history of dixieland/swing/bebop/modal.

Let us know what you decide.

[DrawMusic]

You can use a pretty simple procedure to find a scale to use over a chord:

1. Of course start with the notes in the chord itself, plus any strong melody notes that are played along with it.

2. Now you just have to find "passing tones" to fill in the gaps between the notes you found in step 1.

3. Look at the notes in the chords (& melody) preceding (and perhaps following) the chord you're working on to find passing tones which will fit in nicely.

[rbarata]

Let us know what you decide.

That might take a while.

I can see this is a kind of "controversial" issue which means it all depends on the approach of each one of us. I must find my method but I think intuition would be the way I choose.

I believe the Berklee Chord Scale system also goes into similar rundown.

They would have us believe that some songs would have one changing scales/ modes with every chord change.

I tend to agree with this.

[sammy24]

If you want to keep it simple: In pop/rock style songs, that mostly stick to one key (all or mostly diatonic chords), then you can pretty much just play the home key. There isn't necessarily a reason to have to think a new scale for every chord. (The only issue being, some notes over certain chords will sound "unstable"--doesn't mean not to play them, but usually they need to resolve to a more stable note-- like in key of C: the note F on a C chord, the note B on a Dmi chord, the notes F and C on the Emi chord, the note C on the G chord, the note F on the Ami chord, and the note C on the Bdim chord).

In "tonal" jazz songs (standards, bebop, based on functional harmony, you can think of every II-V-I as a unit, where you can generally play the scale of the I. So Dmi-G7-C is all in the key of C. And Dmi7(b5)-G7(b9)-Cmi is all over Cmi (harmonic minor for the dominant chord). But the music is constantly changing keys, so each new II-V or II-V-I has to be in that new key. Obviously if you want it to sound more sophisticated, you're gonna have to learn about different alternatives you can use for each chord. Which involves a different scale for each chord, etc. But we're trying to keep this simple : )

For modal jazz, you have to look at the leadsheet, add the melody notes, and try to figure out which mode you're in. (If the leadsheet says Dmi7, it's not telling you if it's Dorian, Phrygian, or Aeolian, but often you can figure it out from the melody, or by listening to the album). Then, there's no getting around it, you're gonna be playing a different scale for pretty much every chord.

Music can be complicated : ). I highly recommend the Berklee chord-scale book. It's difficult, but actually it's written really well, much better than a lot of these books whose authors do not bother to explain or elaborate enough. Main thing is-- you'll never be able to memorize all the information unless you work on hearing this stuff. Play the scales, while holding the chords in the left hand, sing the scales, etc. The ear can memorize much more than the brain

[wrench45us]

very nice summary

[Ogg Vorbis]

very nice summary

I agree with this agreement. Sammy rocked it.

The only thing I might add for someone to think about... in what Sammy is calling "tonal jazz" (as opposed to modal-based jazz) the functional harmonies propel the phrases forward toward phrase endings (cadences). These are many times ii V I cadences in various keys.

It's good to think about voice leading through these changes and not get stuck into thinking "okay here's an Fm7 Bb7(-9) EbMaj7 so I need to play such and such scale." Try to think about WHERE the resolutions are and how to melodically exploit these resolutions.

Some books have a real "play this scale over this chord" kind of orientation but that's too oversimplified. When you solo or improvise over harmonies, you have an opportunity to "tell a story" with melodic phrases. This means exploiting the tension-release aspects of the changes and where they are going. This can be the difference between playing music and playing some runs and licks.

[PurpleCatfishBettie]

There used to be an instructional series called, 'Abersold.' That's probably another place to look for a 'jazz point of view.'