Synth Bank Prices

[Cyforce]

Edit : Btw if some SDs are visiting this thread I'd be curious to know their average time per preset too

LtZ

Very different... Sometimes i build a soundset in a week, sometimes it needs 2 months. THe time for a preset belong to many factors. Which synth, macrocontrols onboard or not etc...
A preset for alchemy takes much longer as Ace.

I personally work there on a very strange way, but this way saves sometimes much time.

I start only with a soundset, if i know exactly how it should be in my mind, so like i can see the finished soundset in my mind with all the sounds which should be included. So mostly i considering some days about the soundset before i start with it, and than when i start, i know than which sounds are in etc - so i can programming the sounds on the synth from my mind, where they are than like a skretch. Sounds strange but so i can working good.

For example for my first massive set i need around 2 months, for the third soundset - where i make me many many sound-sketches in my mind i needed only 10 days. But for this workway you must know the synth so good, that you can imagine soundprogramming with it in your mind. Like you can close your eyes and see the synth and designing there a sound. And after 2-3 months intensive work with the massive, you really know every waveform and also nearly how it sounds in all settings.

So an average time for 1 preset, hmmm hard to say. Sometimes 15 minutes, sometimes 1 hour, if it sounds after 1 hour not right -> deleted and forward to the next init!

[Cyforce]

This is why yours are worth the money Mr Lee.

The mod wheel stuff is always spot on.

50% of the soundbanks I buy down't even bother with this.

I also don't use modwheel but not because lazyness or something. More based on a logical reason. Some midikeyboards have another "ground/zero"-position of her modwheel, so if you use modwheel for cutoff vor example, the sounds will sounds on some midikeyboards different because the cutoff is than via the modwheel closed and on some others open or on the source-position...

At my second soundset for the wavestation every sound have modwheel-usage, but speically there many many users ask angry "why come on some presets no sound out?" - "because the basic position of your modwheel is at zero, and not at 64 like usually, so your midikeyboard close automatic the cutoff"

Based on this i don't use modwheel, and i think nearly everyone has a midikeyboard which have also 8 controllers, with ths 8 controllers you can more modulate than with the modwheel

[rob_lee]

That's why in Zebra i Duplicate the Modwheel controls to be the same in XY1 so that the user has a choice to control for example the filter by 2 ways..
Each to their own..Iv'e had no complaints yet.

Cheers

Rob

[himalaya]

Based on this i don't use modwheel, and i think nearly everyone has a midikeyboard which have also 8 controllers, with ths 8 controllers you can more modulate than with the modwheel

True. But a mod wheel is more of an immediate performance tool than knobs placed above the keyboard. The reason is, a mod wheel is placed next to the pitch wheel, making simultaneous use of both easy and natural. Try jumping from a knob above a keyboard to the pitch wheel if you want to access both at the same time ? Impossible. I do appreciate that sound sets aimed at the dance market don't really need to bother with this performance aspect, as I don't see dance musicians needing that natural and flowing real-time performance input. But you never know...


The solution to your problem with controllers that reset to zero (really, only those midi controller that use a spring loaded joystick/lever) is to reverse the polarity of the cut off modulation. So the sound starts off bright with cut off open in the mod joystick zero position. Push the joystick up, it closes the filter. The reverse works as well, ie: starting off with a closed cut off, but not closed down fully, as there would be no point to start off with a preset that makes no sound. Here, push the lever up, the cut off opens. Works both ways.

Then, if you mention this in the READ ME note, ie: cut off vs spring loaded mod levers, users will be informed ( if they read 'Read Me' notes that is) and hopefully will understand it.

[Cyforce]

Thx for the suggestion

perhaps i will use this for one of the next soundsets, like blofeld/largo.

[TiUser]

what would you consider a reasonable price for a bank of 128 sounds for a soft synth. Not a set of samples or samples/presets, just straight up preset sounds for a synth you use...

I explained my calculation already and why I find it difficult to state a useful price - gracefully viewed from sound designers' side. It depends on the time it takes to make them and the number of copies sold. Factor two is hard to rate... If people like it or not is another story.

I don't think pay what you want is great marketing - as cheaper something is as less respected it will be treated - regardless if it's good for many or not.

Finally it depends on competition... and I can't seriously tell you what you should charge for your work.

[himalaya]

I think you have to look at what the average price per sound is from other companies- like NI or Spectrasonics.

If Omnisphere is selling for $499 for and has 4222 patches (not including soundsources)- that is 11.8 cents per patch. So 128 patches with the known quality of the Spectrasonic team is worth roughly $15.

This is how I would look at it- so a 3rd party company just doing patchwork- I would expect to pay $5-10 per 128 patches (why on earth do we have to stick with the old 128 patch bank idea anyways).

There are many variations in these patches, not really duplicates but sometimes not so far. and btw a lot of them have been sold numerous times under different product names so that if youre following spectrasonics for many years you would have paid twice at least for them

And I love Omnisphere but well ........

LtZ

To add to Lourent's post. This comparison, JavaJ, is unfair and misses a lot of important detail:

A company like Spectrasonics has a long history with established products and most importantly, reputation, and even more importantly, success. Everyone in the synth music business knows about them. They sell instruments like hot cakes. So, on the surface it looks like the estimated cost of Spectarsonics presets is $15, but since they will sell in huge numbers this estimated cost is immaterial, since even if the preset was valued at $1, my guess is, they would still make a profit. This of course, would not be the case with majority of independent releases by freelance sound designers.

Even if we talk about additional sound bank refills. A company like Spectrasonics will send out a newsletter and will instantly reach thousands of users. If I release a sound bank myself, it reaches only those who see my forum threads, perhaps a good review in a mag, or if I have extra cash, a small advert on a website.

Lastly, Spectrsonics sell software instruments (with presets). Freelance sound designers sell presets/sound banks. One is attached to a product, the other is a free floating amorphous cloud of intergalactic dreams. That's what I sell, and that's priceless.

[darsho]

I think you have to look at what the average price per sound is from other companies- like NI or Spectrasonics.

If Omnisphere is selling for $499 for and has 4222 patches (not including soundsources)- that is 11.8 cents per patch. So 128 patches with the known quality of the Spectrasonic team is worth roughly $15.

Yep but how many of those 4222 patches are really fitting my needs? Perhaps 5%.

Well if one buys a soundbank, I am sure you cannot make use of more than 5 % of the sounds as well. At least when I go throgh factory sounds, I only ever need the same categories of sounds and many sounds are for musical styles I don't do.

btw, Analog Factory is 199 Euro and has 3500 Sounds. I figured a soundbank with 128 is then worth 7 euro approximately, although that is a strange math I must say as in the price, the synth is of course included.
Which Synth offeres the most "presets for money" ?
Anybody knows a synth that tops Analog Factory ?

[yellowfever]

£10 for a 128 bank of presets seems reasonable = 8p / preset. (Unless your name is Rob Lee, when I'd push it to 9p)

[D N A]

A soundset below 10€ can't be good! I expect 95% useless patches then (i made this experience in the past).

Well, like I said - you can have my soundset(s) for like 1-2 $ and I don't think these presets are that bad (at least when I compare them to other libraries)

I would say that price also depends on other factors. I create presets mostly for myself first and then, when I have them a lot, I think about releasing them. I'm not trying to make business so I have no pressure. It's my hobby not work. Sometimes I like it more than composing - it's pure fun to tweak knobs AS a hobbyist I realise that I can't provide such great support as 'real' companies, that's why my price is so low. To be honest, I would release my presets for free If I would want to. I dont do that because I think that people generally value things more if they pay for it - even if it's just 1 $ Like I said, I use donations mostly to pay hosting bills or buy some beer (polish beer improves my sound design skills )


But of course, I know what you mean - all of these great deals like 54634563456 presets for 2 $ are indeed funny

[Wildfunk]

Like I said, I use donations mostly to pay hosting bills or buy some beer (polish beer improves my sound design skills )

So i've invested $5 in polish beer?!

[D N A]

Like I said, I use donations mostly to pay hosting bills or buy some beer (polish beer improves my sound design skills )

So i've invested $5 in polish beer?!

It depends. When did you donate ?

[Mac Hine]

A soundset below 10€ can't be good!

Well, my fafourite soundbanks are from www.vstsoundbanks.com. 9.95e

I usually buy soundbanks just to find insipiration when I am lost. Usually I am not even using them, just playing with them to get new ideas. If soundbank cost 10e, I dont have to think if I buy it. If it cost more I have to concider because:

1. Usually there are only 5-10 sounds that I have not heard before or I really like. Most of them are good and I can "jam" with them but not really use them in music or starting point.

2. There are those damn re-creation included.. I really dont want to pay to get another dominator preset..

3. Most of the banks are for trance or electrohouse. I like some of them but there is quite small difference when I listen the banks from Rob, Cyforce or Vengeance. All good but after bought couple, I feel that there is nothing new... more of the same.

4. I feel also that if soundset cost 1/3 from the cost of synth... its little bit too much.

Well, I have more than I need allready so if you want me to buy more, sell them cheap.

Last time I was exited about soundset was when I got the Adam Baker soundset. I keep playing with those blade runner re-creation for hours... well, thats pretty much destroys everything I said about not wanting to hear another re-creation

[rob_lee]

A soundset below 10€ can't be good!

3. Most of the banks are for trance or electrohouse. I like some of them but there is quite small difference when I listen the banks from Rob, Cyforce or Vengeance. All good but after bought couple, I feel that there is nothing new... more of the same.

Some of mine are below 10euro but your the first complaint so far since releasing them.
Nevermind it's each to their own though..i can't speak for the other guys Cyforce and Manuel but maybe i should up mine to 25 Euro and they'll rate as good

a statement i put in posts when i advertise a new bank is:

These sounds will not suit all tastes.

Thanks

Rob

[Mac Hine]

Some of mine are below 10euro but your the first complaint so far since releasing them.

Little missundertanding I was not complaining (rather giving compliment), just stating that there are several sound designers making sounds for trance and electrohouse. They all sound good but some of them are asking quite lot. As these genres are not entirely for me, I usually dont want to pay lot of them as there are not so much for me and the quality and sounds are quite similar amongst them.

Rob has priced the product fairly and I have bought them all and I am satisfied with them. Thats what I was trying to say. Even rob's banks was not totally aimed for me, I bought them because quality was good and it did cost me only couple beers. If it would cost more, I would really have to think about it.