Magix Vandal amp sim = Winner in terms of sound quality so far

[Silenceborn]

Indeed anyone with right settings and good sound system and guitar can get some great clean, crunch and high gain sound out of Amplitube. Well I did not see anyone here says that they can not get a good high gain sound out of Amplitube, for instance I can get some incredible high gain sound with amplitube 2 and even better with 3, those marshals are wonderful, also as you said 5150 is a monster, no doubt about it, but Vandal amp both clean and high gain is BETTER to my ears, maybe even much better to my ears and probably to some other people as well. more punch, better dynamics and more natural sounding and definitely more upfront sound, less glassy, less muddy, less fizz. So while I can get great results with AT3, I can get more than Great result with Vandal now tbh.

EDIT : Just forgot to mention that tonight I compared my real world JCM 800 1981 with the jcm 800 preset( after tweaking ofc) and also my Fender twin reverb 1979 with another preset after tweaking and man what a sound, I'm not saying its just exactly as the real deal because it is not, but it is so close that I actually prefer to play and record with it instead of micing my amps.

Btw because the focus of this thread is on Vandal, please discuss about Vandal as well beside the other amp sims.

Cheers

[shogger]

but Vandal amp both clean and high gain is BETTER to my ears, maybe even much better to my ears and probably to some other people as well. more punch, better dynamics and more natural sounding and definitely more upfront sound, less glassy, less muddy, less fizz.

As they say: Audios or it never happened!







Shogger

[Franzel]

+1, let's hear it! I tried the Vandal demo, and though I really appreciate the fresh perspective as well as the effort that went into it, I agree with shogger: don't think it's there yet and it won't replace GR 4 or AT3 here.

[trmupstage]

I've tried Vandal, and I think the cabinet simulation is interesting. At least it feels a quite bit like I was in front of a cabinet. But the overall sound, I think still lag behind.

AmpliTube 3 cabinets feel less alive to me, but overall sound is great. I think Softube Vintage Amp Room feels the best and sounds great. It's really tempting, but 3 amps for that price is really hard to swallow.

I downloaded Vandal Amp today to do some tests. I've got a Marshall 2204 and a Fender Tremolux from the 60's that has EL84's. (Very rare that one) and a 65 Bassman and a 66 Deluxe. Out of the Fenders, I always like the Deluxe the most. Anyway, I also have a POD XT and I'm always looking for a simulator that can come close to a real amp. A lot of my recordings are done late at night and my neighbors aren't too crazy about electric guitars after midnight. So, I've been on the hunt for something that can compare the these real amps on a recording. I've always found it hard to get simulated amps to sit right in the mix. They don't have enough dynamic range and have no "air" around their sound. So, today I continued. IMHO Vandal didn't come close. It sounds covered. It's not terrible, but no better than many others I've played with. Lately, I've been getting into Softube stuff. Pretty pricey, but I like the sound of their compressors, so I checked out their amps too. I have demos of Metal Amp Room and Vintage Amp Room. Those are easily the most "real" sounding of the lot that I've heard. They react like a real amp. They go for a minimalist things, with no effects. Just the sound of the amps. Though I couldn't exactly match my Marshall with either VAR or MAR, they did hold their own pretty well. Still, I'd pick the 2204 over all of them any day. The real Fender sounds good with slight breakup, but heavy distortion is not their strong suit, so for crunch, the Marshall is king (imo).
So after all that, I give +1 for the Softube amps. Very expensive, but worth it for the sound. Only thing I've heard better is a real amp. Maybe I should just move to where my neighbors are miles away.

[hibidy]

I feel bad for the op in some ways, we've shredded his joy

[eduardo_b]

I feel bad for the op in some ways, we've shredded his joy

Or he'll happily ignore everyone's negative posts and continue to enjoy his amp sim choice.

[hibidy]

I feel bad for the op in some ways, we've shredded his joy

Or he'll happily ignore everyone's negative posts and continue to enjoy his amp sim choice.

On kvr?

[eduardo_b]

I feel bad for the op in some ways, we've shredded his joy

Or he'll happily ignore everyone's negative posts and continue to enjoy his amp sim choice.

On kvr?

What was I thinking. Never mind.

[Silenceborn]

LOL hibidy, well rest assured that you or anybody did not shred anyone's joy ) . Well I was like this since I was a child, I used to pick the good shit before others it happened about Amplitube as well since the version 1 I was their customers, it happened for POD as well as I was one of their early customers, also about Guitar rig 1 for when I saw it for the first time (I think it was 2003 or 2004), it just blown my mind away.. I do trust my decision and honestly I can recognize the better sound quality of the Vandal in compare with all the other amp sims I have tried so far and in no way anyone can change my mind or ears other than myself I was a dying hard fan of Amplitube series since version 1 as i mentioned above to this recently released version 3, but now AT3 is not my first choice though it has too many more features and I still believe its sound quality is top notch. Anyway I have spent too much to buy almost all the IK Multimedia and other companies amp sim stuff all these years so I'm using them yet all along each other , but Vandal sound is great and better to my ears, not as good as my real world amps but 90% there and most importantly its Fun! to play with good amp sims ! ..

Btw, try the Dimi presets (get them from the Vandal official website) with Vandal and you may be able to enjoy or probably hear the difference as well

Oh also I just woke up so my head is still a bit dizzy ~~~ its almost 7:00 am here in Australia..anyone from the Dawn Under here ?

So everyone let's go and be productive instead of sitting here and shredding people's joy ).. hehe

Sorry again for my bad English as well

Cheers !

[futurefields]

+1 for the softube

[shogger]

So everyone let's go and be productive instead of sitting here and shredding people's joy ).. hehe

Yeah, please do some audios for us. I'm really curious what you get out of it. And yes, it wouldn't be the first time that I got blown away by something that I couldn't get a great sound out of.

Shogger

[Steviebone]

Well I'll chime in here for a sec...

I don't care about GUI or 'specific amp simulation/recreation'. In my book its all about the sound, playability, CPU consumption and accessibility that matter most. Let me explain.

Sound/Playability. To my ears, Vandal does quite well there. The circuit sag and dynamic behavior of the sound contour is the most realistic out there so far. IR's typically color the input to achieve tone. But this is static.

A real tube amp does not behave this way. How hard you play, pick has everything to do with the amount and type of saturation/sag that occurs. I can change the sound of an amp dramatically just by altering playing style. Most amp sims fail here miserably. A lighter touch just produces the same sound at lower volume. Whats more, IR's add significantly to latency issues, making the sim less playable.

Vandal does well here IMO. The number of notes you play and how you play them (including pick type, style) dynamically alters the saturation much more noticeably than with the other standard sims out there that are using static filtering to try and achieve a specific type of 'tone'. And it does so with much less latency.

Amp Replication. I know most of you want a drop down copycat button to select a specific type of amp knock-off. To me this isn't that important. I don't care about brand names, only that the amp gets a good sound. I would rather have one amp that truly sounds good than 20 'knock-offs' that are just lame attempts at filtering input to match a specific EQ response. For the most part, if you actually A/B'd the real thing and most of these knock-offs you would see that they are not really all that close anyway. There are just too many variables unaccounted for.

I think its far more important to model amps based on circuit/tube behaviour than convolution responses. Again, a real amp/circuit simply doesn't behave in a static fashion. In fact, its anything but. IMO, Studio Devil Pro and Vandal are a good indication that this philosophy will in the long run produce better results.

CPU consumption. Here again, I know that some of you will argue that CPU consumption is a secondary concern. I agree, but only to a point. The GUI's on programs like AT and GTR are just too expensive. Most of the memory and CPU footprint has NOTHING to do with the sound of the sim. It just looks good.

In the real world, especially if you are recording guitar in your DAW with approach of allowing for reamping, etc., (its insane IMO to use computer amp sims and NOT take advantage of this wonderful benefit) then CPU footprint is PARAMOUNT. With vandal, I can open numerous instances with very little expense in terms of CPU power. AT and GTR in contrast are basically one shot animals. Unless you are running an 8-core 8gig 64x machine you will only have room for one amp at mixdown. I do NOT believe on relying on pre-rendering - but that's another subject

Vandal is by far the most efficient in this department of any decent amp sim out there (that produces good tone). BTW, did I mention how good the Bass amp is in Vandal? It's hands down the best sounding of any that I have tried.

Accessibility. Ah, here's the rub. Although I am all about taking advantage of the special features software amps have to offer (re-amp, multiple instancing, recall, etc) to be usable, the amp must also have the ability to communicate with the outside world, specifically external control surfaces.

While MIDI learn is becoming commonplace in most VST and VSTi's now, Vandal's implementation is seriously flawed. And not only is the design itself flawed (5 remotes?), it doesn't even work. Function aside, being limited to five controls is just plain stupid.

For guitar players to be ok with using software sims, they are going to have to be able to do so with the same accessibility they are used to with hardware. You absolutely at minimum, MUST have the ability to turn stomps on/off, switch channels, swell, boost, wah, and so forth from foot pedals, switches. And when a guitar is strapped around your neck, a computer keyboard and mouse are not sufficient. Having real knobs to turn to adjust amp settings is an important part of making amp sims not just a reality but practically usable in the real world.

The proliferation of inexpensive MIDI control surfaces now makes this a very achievable reality. Novation Zeros work great for this, provided the sim allows for easy mapping of MIDI CC's and NRPNs.

But here Vandal falls flat on its ass. It's a tragedy that I hope is soon remedied in a future release. Then I would gladly plop down my dollars. But at this moment, its a deal breaker for me. What good is an amp I can't plug a foot pedal or switch into? Let alone map the rest of the controls to a physical surface.

Otherwise, I see Vandal as a very good step in the right direction.

[eduardo_b]

Amp Replication. I know most of you want a drop down copycat button to select a specific type of amp knock-off. To me this isn't that important. I don't care about brand names, only that the amp gets a good sound.

The amp emulation topic always reminds me so much of the VA synth emulation topic and the inevitable hardware vs software discussions. The only people who might have a real sense of the quality of emulations are those who are intimately familiar with the hardware being emulated. Otherwise, it doesn't seem like it should matter. As you say, if it sounds good...

[Hink]

Vandal is one of now many for me having Samplitude 11 Pro, I'm certainly not disappointed with it but I'm not totally blown away. That likely is more positive than negative though because I think it really takes on the characteristics of a real amp. One major part of that is in your hands, it's not bloated where you can spend a month of Sundays trying set ups. (Not that that isn't a great way to spend a day)

Vandal is as intense as it is subtle, a unique combination. I really enjoy tweaking on it but I have to admit that I find it a bit odd having limited interfaces that are covering such a full range of amps and tones. Whether it be a sim or a physical amp there is a certain tone associated with the visual. I'm not a fan of the whole "model every amp thing" so I found myself caught off guard.

I'm not real fond of the pedals, but that's because I'm not a fan of a lot of pedals with a physical amp. My main reason for that is the noise factor, it is indeed exactly how Vandal is. I haven't played with it as much as Amplitube, GTR 3.5 or GR4 (or my POD xt live of course) so I know there's a lot yet for me to uncover.

Having Samplitude gives me more of Samps wonderful tools, together with Vandal the possibilities are endless. However, and this might sound strange, endless not in the way that other sims that give you so many models of everything to choose from, but endless in ways that as an old school guitarist I find more traditional. Instead of patches with pre-sets it has me thinking more about the way to get what I want and the more generic interface (as in not looking like the model other sims represent) is like going back in time for me.

I'm not thinking I want a Marshall sound or a Fender sound, I'm back to focusing on the sound itself and frankly I really like that. TBH now that I know I wont be performing anymore I have the freedom to use multiple amp sims (and amps) in one song for different parts. Vandal will surely find it's way into a lot of things.

Vandal is really extremely realistic to me and part of that realism is things I don't like in physical amps. As for tonal capabilities again I'm old school, I'm use to playing the sound I can get and not getting a sound that I can play all the time. Squeals, palm muting, finger vibrato and such transfer well the latter being very nice from hi gain to clean. I add fx post recording and monitor through through basic fx when recording my performance as well and I record a separate re-amp signal as well. (generally using my pod xt live as my primary device but monitoring fx without recording them) So I really go for the raw tone of any sim, and of course I do use irs a lot instead of the cabs with sims.

It's a very good sim and a different concept than the way sims have evolved.

[redshift factor]

IR's typically color the input to achieve tone. But this is static.

This is a bit of a strawman. Which ampsims are you talking about that use convolution to model the gain stage? Can you even name one?

A real tube amp does not behave this way. How hard you play, pick has everything to do with the amount and type of saturation/sag that occurs. I can change the sound of an amp dramatically just by altering playing style.

This sounds like IK Multimiedia's Dynamic Saturation Modeling you're talking about here.

Most amp sims fail here miserably. A lighter touch just produces the same sound at lower volume. Whats more, IR's add significantly to latency issues, making the sim less playable.

Again you compare apples and oranges. I get the sense you've just been playing guitar through cab impulses up until now.

I would rather have one amp that truly sounds good than 20 'knock-offs' that are just lame attempts at filtering input to match a specific EQ response.

Would the amp models IK Multimedia developed in close cooperation with Fender, Ampeg, Gallien-Kruger, and THD (which all carry their brand logos and official endorsements) count as 'knock-offs' in your book?

For the most part, if you actually A/B'd the real thing and most of these knock-offs you would see that they are not really all that close anyway. There are just too many variables unaccounted for.

Now I still don't know which ampsims you're talking about, perhaps Guitar Rig, but certainly not AmpliTube. IK Multimedia take precise measurements of the amps' behavior at a cuircut level and develop algorithms which take all of the variables into account. I have A/B'd *recordings* of the real amps to the IK models and most of them are dead on. In fact, I have reproduced the exact tone of some classic tracks in AmpliTube 3 with just a little knowledge of the original equipment used and then matching settings by ear.

I think its far more important to model amps based on circuit/tube behaviour than convolution responses. Again, a real amp/circuit simply doesn't behave in a static fashion. In fact, its anything but. IMO, Studio Devil Pro and Vandal are a good indication that this philosophy will in the long run produce better results.

You are correct about the first part, but again, just which ampsims are you talking about that just use convolution?

With vandal, I can open numerous instances with very little expense in terms of CPU power. AT and GTR in contrast are basically one shot animals. Unless you are running an 8-core 8gig 64x machine you will only have room for one amp at mixdown.

OK, now you mention some ampsims. But I'm sure these are not the same ampsims you were talking about previously, because neither AT nor GTR use convolution to model their amplifier sections, and I know you wouldn't be going on all this time about something you have no idea what you're talking about.

But for the record, one instance of AmpliTube 3 takes a 6% CPU hit on my i7. And I had no problem running 4 or more instances before on my Q6600 in a full blown mix. Also, a x64 machine isn't going to have any impact on CPU performance. Most CPU made in the last 4 years have been x64 anyways.

Now granted, AmpliTube 3 and some of the other top plugins may not be for everybody. They are geared towards serious players and audio professionals who have the necessary equipment to run them, which includes fast DAWs with pro-audio soundcards.