Apple was right, Adobe get over it?

[spaceman]

Yeah, I got a second-hand 3G a month or two back (mostly because I couldn't settle on an Android handset, and realtime audio support wasn't there for music apps), but this, plus the crippling of even the limited 'multitasking' OS4 will offer on the 3G, make me hanker for another phone.

good luck finding one

[xh3rv]

Comparing it to linux is silly. As easy as certain distros are, you'll still have to type code into the terminal here and there. Android phones aren't geeky or needy at all like that. There are root-access terminal apps for it though

Linux is free, and in the mainstream people still would rather pay to never deal with soft- or hardware conflicts (whether or not they then actually never deal with conflicts, I guess is a whole other discussion ... ).

If person A bought an iPhone and person B bought a Droid phone a year ago, person B has potentially seen 4 versions of the OS, software that doesn't work on older OS versions, and software that works poorly on some of the 20+ hardware platforms. That is definitely Linux-like, especially relative to Apple's approach of tightly coupling software and hardware. Person A got 1 OS update and no software or hardware conflicts.

The problems of Linux and the problems of Droid may be at different scales, but I think people's tolerance also scales at least as much between what they'll put up with from a PC and from a phone.

[spaceman]

No configuration necessary. Just install apps and go. Both the Droid and the Nexus One shit on the iphone out of the box.

And how's that then?
Is it the same way FLStudio shits all over Ableton Live and Cubase shits all over Logic?

Because we all know that kind of 'shitting all over'

[spaceman]

Ubuntu for instance is still a pain in the arse on most laptops. Half of the time you can't get wifi to work (depending on your wifi card manufacturer), not to mention graphics. If that's the kind of 'openness' we should all strife for then give me a closed platform any day.

I've got little time as it is, I don't want to spend my weekend trying to get hardware or an application to work.

Android may be open as well, but as has been mentioned before, Android <> Android, as it very much depends on what your phone is capable of. I know what the average user is like. I have to deal with them every single f**king day.. the average user still double clicks on hyperlinks and their browser is their computer and the control panel is a part of NASA.

[whyterabbyt]

I'm starting to think that your approval process on the AppStore would be much more strict than Apple's.

We should stay away just because you have a twisted interpretation says so?

you're the one doing the FUD game here...

Ah right. Rather than make any kind of attempt to explain the language of the agreement in some way that substantiates my interpretation being wrong, you just resort to ad hominem instead. Pathetic.

[spaceman]

@whyterabbyt

You're probably right. The terms do not leave that much room for maneuvering. I think I didn't understand them properly. I still wonder if they will change them before the release.

[TristezaOrange]

If person A bought an iPhone and person B bought a Droid phone a year ago, person B has potentially seen 4 versions of the OS, software that doesn't work on older OS versions, and software that works poorly on some of the 20+ hardware platforms. That is definitely Linux-like, especially relative to Apple's approach of tightly coupling software and hardware. Person A got 1 OS update and no software or hardware conflicts.

The "fragmentation" issue is overstated. Android devices nowadays run 1.5, 1.6 and 2.0/2.1. That's three versions with no major conflicts between them - I can use 90% (perhaps more) of the apps on the Market with no problems. Also, Google is taking care of the (limited) fragmentation issues with the next (Froyo?) update of Android by adopting a more modular approach for the OS.

However, it's true: Apple has tight reins on iPhone and its OS while Google only makes one device (well, HTC makes one device for Google) out of the tens of Android phones. Which may mean less (but not non-existent) fragmentation for the iPhone and more incompatibility issues for the Android handsets. Openness has its downsides, obviously.

Now, Apple has a closed ecosystem with (essentially) two devices and Android has an open ecosystem with lots of devices. I think that Android is going to kick Apple's ass not because it's particularly better - but only because the IBM-compatible PC domination over other closed systems in the 80s taught us something. Well, us but obviously not Apple.

[spaceman]

Now, Apple has a closed ecosystem with (essentially) two devices and Android has an open ecosystem with lots of devices. I think that Android is going to kick Apple's ass not because it's particularly better - but only because the IBM-compatible PC domination over other closed systems in the 80s taught us something. Well, us but obviously not Apple.

We're in a very different economical and social climate now though than we were in the 80s.

[tetsuneko]

We'll see what happens when Adobe sues Apple next week.. It's going to be interesting

And I won't be personally ditching the iPhone platform until the android community can give me alternatives to Flare, Beatmaker, Fire and SunVox..

[TristezaOrange]

IBM had to learn it, Microsoft are still learning it, SGI died because of it, but for some reason Jobs is on his third go at it; closed systems tend to stagnate and open systems thrive better. In his rush to crush Android he might just have handed it the leverage it needs to eat his lunch...

Bingo. It's exactly what happened to them 20ish years ago with computers. Their phone OS is only available on their own phone. Android is on 25+ phones and about as many other devices, a number that's exponentially rising.

I'm watching it all unfold and they are making the exact decisions they made when Microsoft made an open OS that ran on the rest of the market's computers. And everyone knows how it ended, with them falling to 5% of the market share.

Iphones have always been terribly over-rated anyway.

Oh, Chase made the same comment I did long before me.

[TristezaOrange]

Now, Apple has a closed ecosystem with (essentially) two devices and Android has an open ecosystem with lots of devices. I think that Android is going to kick Apple's ass not because it's particularly better - but only because the IBM-compatible PC domination over other closed systems in the 80s taught us something. Well, us but obviously not Apple.

We're in a very different economical and social climate now though than we were in the 80s.

Agreed, but I still fail to see how it's going to make a huge difference in how this is going to play out.

[hibidy]

apple=right......oxy moron?

[whyterabbyt]

@whyterabbyt

You're probably right. The terms do not leave that much room for maneuvering. I think I didn't understand them properly. I still wonder if they will change them before the release.

It depends, I guess. There seems to be a pretty big backlash against it from developers, but Apple are prone to digging their heels in sometimes.

[xh3rv]

The "fragmentation" issue is overstated. Android devices nowadays run 1.5, 1.6 and 2.0/2.1. That's three versions with no major conflicts between them - I can use 90% (perhaps more) of the apps on the Market with no problems. Also, Google is taking care of the (limited) fragmentation issues with the next (Froyo?) update of Android by adopting a more modular approach for the OS.

However, it's true: Apple has tight reins on iPhone and its OS while Google only makes one device (well, HTC makes one device for Google) out of the tens of Android phones. Which may mean less (but not non-existent) fragmentation for the iPhone and more incompatibility issues for the Android handsets. Openness has its downsides, obviously.

Now, Apple has a closed ecosystem with (essentially) two devices and Android has an open ecosystem with lots of devices. I think that Android is going to kick Apple's ass not because it's particularly better - but only because the IBM-compatible PC domination over other closed systems in the 80s taught us something. Well, us but obviously not Apple.

Here's an interesting chart:



If nothing else, this is why I'm a little skeptical of the Android platform. On average, Android phones aren't doing as well as Palm phones here, and nobody is close to Apple. Not that everyone is unhappy with Android - a lot of people clearly are happy with it. But I just don't see it capturing people the way the iPhone has. Add to this that Android is really pretty new, and it's really only the past couple months that it's gained any real traction, I think it's not the iPhone slayer a lot of people want it to be. (Of course with different service networks, this is kind of a stupid debate anyway /shrug)

I really don't buy the comparison to early PCs, either. The closed / open ecosystem doesn't really mean much at the moment, software is radically different now than it was in the past. I suppose Google will have more manufacturers, but I really don't view that as much of an advantage because it's fragmentation - I really think at some point the Android 'army' will probably become varied to the point, not just in what OS is being run, but what the hardware supports, that it will be detrimental the the overall platform. A lot of people, myself included, have noted in this thread that Apple might be antagonizing developers, but there's buzz already that developers are struggling to support all the various hardware platforms Android runs on. (Also Droid apps aren't generating a lot of income, but I figure that's likely to change). And to reiterate a point I really want to emphasize, I think people have long accepted hardware conflicts on PCs, but I just don't see people being that tolerant of hardware conflicts on phones. It's a phone, it should make calls and not require a whole lot of maintenance.

[whyterabbyt]

And to reiterate a point I really want to emphasize, I think people have long accepted hardware conflicts on PCs, but I just don't see people being that tolerant of hardware conflicts on phones. It's a phone, it should make calls and not require a whole lot of maintenance.

The iPhone is a phone. The iPod and iPad arent. They're 'mobile devices'. And Apple have already put them in the some sort of frame of mind of being something that gets OS updates and application installations and suchlike, just like their computer. The culture is that its a device you do maintain, unlike the 'non-smart' mobile phone model. Hell, it even mandates a certain amount of 'maintenance' on your 'real' computer in that you may need to even keep iTunes up to date...