Are certain Keys / Scales more prevalent in house / techno ?

[Auen Cross]

Dear Nuffink:

That's quite a good point. The III major does occur in the various modes.

On the flipside, it's also worthy to note that another name for the modes are the "medieval modes", mostly because modes were most widely and popularly used during the times of Gregorian and modal music, occured sparsely among classical composers, and was only brought to extensive use in modern rock and experimentalism, especially around the time Schoenberg stepped onto the scene. Since modes (with the exception of Ionian and Aeolian) do not make much harmonic sense to untrained ears (due to its close relationship with chromaticism) and do not make much room for inter-key modulation, it's fairly safe to start off in music without trying such advanced ideas. Most music nowadays still plays it safe in the realm of orthodox major/minor chord progressions from a cadential point of view.

Same thing applies to your point about the occurence of III in modes. The III-vi idea we are talking about is in the context of orthodox major/minor modulations. While the occurence of III in modes can be explained, the idea of I-III-vi is still not explained by modes, nor applicable to modes.

Actually, your second point made alot more sense in the context of this thread- house and techno (modes just aren't so popular in electronic music). It also may depend on our respective interpretations of genre names. I took techno to refer to the more lyrical, happy side of upbeat electronic music. However, mentioning that many artists simply sample chords (parallel minor chords) brings to mind the more cooler tones of electronic dance- like trance. "Parallel Minor Chords" immediately set the motif of Buuren's Rush Hour off in my head.

[runagate]

George Russell's Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal Organization

[tapper mike]

Music in general doesn't make sense to "Untrained ears"

I know of no non-musician who analyzes music from a harmonic perspective.

Non musicians do not decide they like music based on the "theory" employed by the piece. Either they like or do not like a piece of music by it's familiarity or difference.

I like it it sounds like "Artist X"
I don't like it it sounds like "Artist X"

I like it. it's different then what I'm familiar/saturted with.
I don't like it. it's different then what I'm familiar/saturted with.

[Auen Cross]

Well, yes that's true, but I'd think that what I was aiming for was sort of like the fact that untrained ears can tell the difference between, say, Pachabel and John Cage. While they indeed have no clue as to harmonic structures, they can distinguish between vastly different harmonic systems, e.g. polyphonic vs. monophonic, tonal-center vs. modal/atonal center- so on and so forth.

[agentsanchez]

...

The op should also know that much House and Techno contains nothing that could easily be identified as harmonic progression. It often appears to use parallel minor chords. This is a natural consequence of sampling such chords and allowing the sampler to repitch them.

I know that much of what's out there doesn't, but some of the best stuff does (well... minimal and techno not so much). Think Sasha / Booka Shade, etc...

[MOK19]

I know only a bit of theory, but I have something useful nonetheless:
One quick easy tool that I've discovered recently... In Cubase, probably other DAWs, theres midi plugins, one of which being the Chorder. It takes a single note midi instruction, and turns it into multiple midi notes, a chord. You can select it's presets for certain kinds of chords...

In Cubase, theres one labeled MajorDom, which I guess is major dominant. Turns it into a 5 voice chord, I think. This chord pretty much SCREAMS deep house. Try it. Just turn on a shiny stabby synth, hit any note, try any note progression, boom it's house music.

I'd personally be very interested in some of the details behind this phenomenon if anyone could fill-in.

[Auen Cross]

MajorDom is short for Major Dominant Seventh chord. It's a 4 voice chord comprising of a major triad layered with a major seventh interval.

For example, an MajDom chord in E major would be the E major triad (E, G#, B) plus a seventh interval (D#).

A major dominant chord may/may not scream deep house, but it probably would definitely remind one of the genre if placed on a stabby synth plugin. However, I do not think that a progression of stabby MajDom chords would result in a "boom" of instant house music. MajDom chords are generally on the heavier tonal side, and are easily overwhelming if used excessively. It would give a very unique sound though- nowadays many stick to simple chords. Chorder would help you discover some less known harmonies.

[MOK19]

Thanks for the response....
Actually, that answers a question that I'd been mulling over for a while. I'd made a song using major dominant 7th chords, but came to a standstill, as I couldn't get anything to mesh with that particular synth. You seem to be saying that this chord tends to take up a lot of space, so I guess I more or less 'ran out of room'... 'Course, it didn't solve the problem of figuring out what I might be able to fit inside of it now.

But maybe I could thin it out for most of it, then save that chord for certain flourishes or hooks, special parts in the song.

And yeah, the Chorder plugin helped me realize the different options out there. It's great for experimenting and quickly finding different feels, rather than having to program in all the various different chords you can think of.

[ballbag]

Dance music is heavy on production, short on musical complication. You would be hard pressed to find a dance producer who is working with every scale and mode in the book...

That is a twatish comment, have you ever tried to produce a house track? well let me tell you, I have an HND in music production and I still can't produce a decent house track after 4 years of trying. There's a lot more to it than you think my friend.

[BertKoor]

I have an HND in music production and I still can't produce a decent house track after 4 years of trying.

I wonder what they taught you and what was examined in order to get one of those diplomas. You seem to have a lot of questions on music and it's production in particular nevertheless...

[MaliceX]

Dance music is heavy on production, short on musical complication. You would be hard pressed to find a dance producer who is working with every scale and mode in the book...

That is a twatish comment, have you ever tried to produce a house track? well let me tell you, I have an HND in music production and I still can't produce a decent house track after 4 years of trying. There's a lot more to it than you think my friend.

Your degree is a "twattish" certification. Have you ever seen the pro house artists ever NEED a degree to sound decent?

[Scottyg6000]

Dear agentsanchez:

Techno music does not focus on any particular key or feature particular scales. However it does utilize some very common tonal progressions.

In MAJOR Keys:

-I-vi-IV-V (eg, C major, A minor, F major, G major)
-I-iii-ii or IV-V (eg, C major, E minor, D minor or F Major, G Major)
-I-III-vi-IV-V (eg, C major, E major, A minor, F major, G major)

In Minor Keys:

-i-VI-III-VII (eg, D minor, B flat major, F major, C major)
-i-v-VI-III-VII (eg, D minor, A minor, B flat major, F major, C major)

Hey I was really interested in picking this thread up. Auen Cross, where did you collect these progressions from? Have you any theory which suggests these progression are influential in House/Tech House i.e long shot - any derivatives from Soul/Blues/Gospel/Funk? Do you mean anything specific when you say tonal progressions? (I doubt u have.)

I've searched a lot for common progression for house/Techno Tech House and see advice which says, a lot will simply center on the 1st and 5th. How does a fairly static progression i.e 1 or two chords affect creating a bassline and or a Melody? And conversely how would a richer progression affect the creation of those things? (Melody/bassline). How would the resolving aspects of Harmony come into play with a static progression?

Any significant advice from others much welcome.

Scotty G