New to Cantabile

[PhilG]

Hi,

I have been looking for a simple and powerful live host.
Now I made my decision and purchased Cantabile Performer.
Using VST live on stage is completely new for me, but I have to get into it now.

We want to use Cantabile with a notebook and a M-Audio Axiom 61 to play some VSTi and for audio processing.
We want to avoid to work on the screen, ideal it would be to do all changes and switches with the Axiom or ProjectMix.

Mainly we need stacked Pads and Drones with some rhythmic elements to create nice background athmospheres.
The rhythms should come from Stylus RMX and I try to sort out the best suited VSTi for the Pads and Drones.

But there are some problems I can't solve at the moment.
It seems some plugins behave somehow strange in this host.

DragnDrop of the RMX parts into the media player is working fine, but it doesn't seem to be possible to play more than one midi file at once.

I don't find a way to route midi files to different midi channels.
Are multitimbral VSTi not supported yet?

I can't figure out how to use or route multiple outputs of the VSTi.

As a workaround I tried to assign 8 buttons to trigger each of the 8 RMX parts manually, but it doesn't seem to be possible to start or stop them immediately or in time.
Sometimes RMX is taking the command, sometimes not.
I really need a reliable way to trigger the parts instantly.
A wrong timing would spoil the dramaturgy of the whole song.

Some VSTi (Albino 3) are loosing the preset bank, when I load a saved song.
Fortunately they are keeping the saved preset, but I can't switch them.
BTW sometimes the displayed number or preset name in Cantabile is one behind the real one.
Seems to be the classical MIDI # 0 or 1 starting point problem.
Maybe an option to set this for each plugin would be nice.

In a new rack I put Albino as first entry, followed by Wusikstation to create a stacked pad, but it seems Wusikstation is processing or influencing the Albino sounds somehow.
When I bypass Wusik the Albino sounds different.
Is this a kind of data bleeding?
This really shouldn't happen, but who to blame?

Is there a way or a plugin for tapping the tempo without having to enter the option manually on screen?
I would prefer to have the tapping option available constantly.

Maybe some of these flaws could be solved by better organisation of the racks or better knowledge of the program.

Would you help me a little?

Phil

[TiUser]

First of all - welcome to the "club"...

That's a hell of questions but ok, I'll try to give you some idea...


As I do not have most of the plugins you refer too I may just be able to give some hints.

"We want to avoid to work on the screen, ideal it would be to do all changes and switches with the Axiom or ProjectMix. "

Not having control on any type of screen will need some bravery... but I think it's possible.

Organizing a show has two levels, subsessions and sessions. Loading sessions usually take more time - plugins are dumped/reloaded. Using subsessions is much faster - so probably also not perfectly instant but the best we have with VST.

If you want to use a session per song you can organize your performance list in Cantabiles Setlist. You can assign program changes from your controllers to jump to any session file as well as assigning up/down controllers. But because loading session files can take some time - and mutes the audio engine then - some visual control would be welcome here...

For faster changes in a song you should use Peroformers Subsesions. There is a Subsessions list that can be controlled like the setlist. You can assign program changes to jump to any subsession stat you want as well as having up/down. You als can set up different sets of controls for subsession and setlist.

Setlists also offer the option to address subsessions, so you can jump of go up/down in subsessions as well. It depends on what you prefer and which list suits you.


With stacking sounds it depends if you stack sound elements within a single plugin or you stack multiple plugins. In the latter case I recommend you use a separate rack for each instrument (including dedicated effects to this part) because multiprocessor support can work better this way.


"The rhythms should come from Stylus RMX and I try to sort out the best suited VSTi for the Pads and Drones. "

Not sure, is stylus rmx a midi source then?

You can route midi channels from rack to another but I do not know hoe to route multiple midi ports if stylus has more than one...


"But there are some problems I can't solve at the moment.
It seems some plugins behave somehow strange in this host."

Which plugins are these and what is the strange behavior? You'd probably also ask this question to Brad R. from Topten software.


"DragnDrop of the RMX parts into the media player is working fine, but it doesn't seem to be possible to play more than one midi file at once.

I don't find a way to route midi files to different midi channels.
Are multitimbral VSTi not supported yet?
"

Well, midi files can contain information for several channels at once. Again I am not sure what stylus rmx provides here...

You can use channel remap Midi filters in Cantabile to solve this.

But first you have to set up the destination sound "module" in the media player - "send to" and then the rack you want.

At rack level you can set midi filters in the "split/transpose" popup at midi filters. There you can select and remap midi channels coming from the midi file of the media player.

Multi timbral VST's are of course supported - there is just an issue with plugins having multiple ports - like Kontakt with 4 ports A,B,C,D summing to 64 midi channels - just could access port A.


When you've succeeded in some basic midi routing and want to play multiple midi files at once you should take care of the syncing modes, media player groups and related options. I refer to the manual here as I do not know too exactly how to accomplish what you need.


"I can't figure out how to use or route multiple outputs of the VSTi."

That's indeed a weak point to operate - so even it's there well hidden under the hood...

Refer to the manual buzzwords "master bus" and the plugin routings.

Basically open in a plugin slot in a rack under settings "tools" -> "audio channels". Then you get a dialog box where you can link the audio outs to the master bus. Unfortunately this is no mixer but just this list thing which is kind of technical - also it can do most of the trick needed... I myself hope for enhancements of the gui for this functionality.


"Some VSTi (Albino 3) are loosing the preset bank, when I load a saved song. "

Some plugins do use their own browsers and do not expose standard fxb / fxp. Try to activate "subsession behavior" - "entire bank". just right click on the plugin name in the racks plugin slot to open a context menu with this...


"In a new rack I put Albino as first entry, followed by Wusikstation to create a stacked pad, but it seems Wusikstation is processing or influencing the Albino sounds somehow. "

As already said I recommend to put both in a separate rack. If you put them in the same you have not only worse multicore behavior but also to activate midi pass through (the circle with the arrow down) but also midi filters on rack slot level. There can also arise issues with program changes if the plugins react on this... also you can suppress these per rack slot. I think once you got your head around midi routing you will find that two racks are easier to use.

"Is there a way or a plugin for tapping the tempo without having to enter the option manually on screen?
I would prefer to have the tapping option available constantly. "

I think you can assign a midi controller to this but I admit I don't know how without referring to the manual...

As another hint remind that tempo is stored with each subsession...


"Would you help me a little? "

I've tried to... a little

[PhilG]

Thank you for the fast reply, TiUser.

I have a gig this weekend and going to leave now.
So it will take some time until I can work with your tipps.

I didn't understand completely how the subsessions are working, but I will try later.
Putting each instrument in a rack on its own had been the last thing I tested today and it solves some of my glitches.

More next week.


Bye

Phil

[TiUser]

Good luck for your gig!

I think you want to get started with so much that you can't go into this very fast... Probably you shouldn't start with programming an entire show but try to integrate things step by step.

If you haven't done so already you may wish also to check out the Eric's very informative Cantabile video tutorials here: http://www.cantabilesoftware.com/videos/

I've also put up a video tutorials history for reference too - which Brad has kindly made a sticky on top of this forum.


Subsession is Cantabile jargon... Another expression for a subsession is a "scene". It's a "state" within a session you can recall instantly.

Let's say you load two instruments - for example an organ and a piano - you can mute and unmute one or the other, you can change vst patches and more "on the fly" and recall this as subsessions. This is very fast because nor the audio engine has to be stopped neither plugins have to be loaded.

Subsessions is one of the strong features why one will purchase Cantabile "Performer" edition instead of "Solo"...

...well, there is some more like midi clock sync, midi routing table, triggers and more to be found on Cantabile's website. That's all more or less advanced stuff for larger setups and more flexibility.