KVR Audio

guitarzan · Post by **guitarzan** » Mon May 17, 2010 10:48 pm

tomg wrote: Fender Vibro Champ XD $200
http://www.amazon.com/Fender-Vibro-Cham ... 917&sr=1-1

Fender Super-Champ XD $300
http://www.amazon.com/Fender-Super-Cham ... 969&sr=1-1

Man, these prices absolutely prove that many software amp sims are way, WAY overpriced!!! I mean, these amps have the software in them, plus an entire tube amp (+ speaker and cab) for around the same price as many of the plug in amp sims! And I know without even trying one that a Fender amp with a software preamp sounds way more "amp-like" than any VST.

It's not that amp sims don't have a very useful place, but damn, man....get real with the pricing!! Software would have less development cost than a hardware (by far, I'd say) and the cost of manufacturing and distribution is close to ZERO!!

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Mon May 17, 2010 10:56 pm

guitarzan wrote:
tomg wrote: Fender Vibro Champ XD $200
http://www.amazon.com/Fender-Vibro-Cham ... 917&sr=1-1

Fender Super-Champ XD $300
http://www.amazon.com/Fender-Super-Cham ... 969&sr=1-1
Man, these prices absolutely prove that software amp sims are way, WAY overpriced!!! I mean, these amps have the software in them, plus an entire tube amp (+ speaker and cab) for around the same price as many of the plug in amp sims! And I know without even trying one that a Fender amp with a software preamp sounds way more "amp-like" than any VST.

It's not that amp sims don't have a very useful place, but damn, man....get real with the pricing!! Software would have less development cost than a hardware (by far, I'd say) and the cost of manufacturing and distribution is close to ZERO!!

Fair enough, but comparing a real amp to a sim is like comparing a swiss army knife to a bottle opener. The whole idea behind the amp sim is completely unique.

guitarzan · Post by **guitarzan** » Mon May 17, 2010 11:05 pm

hibidy wrote:
guitarzan wrote:
tomg wrote: Fender Vibro Champ XD $200
http://www.amazon.com/Fender-Vibro-Cham ... 917&sr=1-1

Fender Super-Champ XD $300
http://www.amazon.com/Fender-Super-Cham ... 969&sr=1-1
Man, these prices absolutely prove that software amp sims are way, WAY overpriced!!! I mean, these amps have the software in them, plus an entire tube amp (+ speaker and cab) for around the same price as many of the plug in amp sims! And I know without even trying one that a Fender amp with a software preamp sounds way more "amp-like" than any VST.

It's not that amp sims don't have a very useful place, but damn, man....get real with the pricing!! Software would have less development cost than a hardware (by far, I'd say) and the cost of manufacturing and distribution is close to ZERO!!
Fair enough, but comparing a real amp to a sim is like comparing a swiss army knife to a bottle opener. The whole idea behind the amp sim is completely unique.

Yeah, I know...I'm all about amp sims (or at least "guitarzan" is all about amp sims), but my point is that if you can buy a Fender tube combo amp that also houses all the additional digital hardware needed to host an amp sim PLUS contains the full featured amp sim software inside all for the price of leading VST amp sim software, then either that is the deal of the century or much of the amp sim software is EXTREMELY OVERPRICED! Maybe a bit of both?!

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Mon May 17, 2010 11:17 pm

I know what you are saying, it's just that I remember following the AT3 stuff from the beginning and saw all that equipment and how much it would cost and thought about how much effort and detail went into it. Either side of the coin is fine though, I say it everytime...If I could have a real amp, I'd do it. (probably a blackstar )

electro · Post by **electro** » Mon May 17, 2010 11:24 pm

Mokafix Stomps are better than the stomps included in every AMP Sim.
http://mokafix.com/en/effects-overview.html

kaffeekranz · Post by **kaffeekranz** » Mon May 17, 2010 11:39 pm

guitarzan wrote: Software would have less development cost than a hardware (by far, I'd say)

Yeah, right.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Mon May 17, 2010 11:43 pm

electro wrote:Mokafix Stomps are better than the stomps included in every AMP Sim.
http://mokafix.com/en/effects-overview.html

No offense, but many of us don't DO synthedit.

guitarzan · Post by **guitarzan** » Mon May 17, 2010 11:45 pm

kaffeekranz wrote:
guitarzan wrote: Software would have less development cost than a hardware (by far, I'd say)
Yeah, right.

Alright...now I remember why I don't come here anymore,,,OK,,,tell me, oh wise ass, how would it involve more development time for software only as compared to the amp sim software contained in the Fender amps, the a/d converters in the amp, the digital hardware to host the amp sim, the tube power amp, speaker and cab?

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Tue May 18, 2010 12:05 am

hibidy wrote:
electro wrote:Mokafix Stomps are better than the stomps included in every AMP Sim.
http://mokafix.com/en/effects-overview.html
No offense, but many of us don't DO synthedit.

Why do you think they're synthedit? I don't think they are.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Tue May 18, 2010 12:08 am

zerocrossing wrote:
hibidy wrote:
electro wrote:Mokafix Stomps are better than the stomps included in every AMP Sim.
http://mokafix.com/en/effects-overview.html
No offense, but many of us don't DO synthedit.
Why do you think they're synthedit? I don't think they are.

yes they are:

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/4340.html

electro · Post by **electro** » Tue May 18, 2010 1:03 am

hibidy wrote:
electro wrote:Mokafix Stomps are better than the stomps included in every AMP Sim.
http://mokafix.com/en/effects-overview.html
No offense, but many of us don't DO synthedit.

And if the plugins nail the stomps they purport to model, so what?

Steviebone · Post by **Steviebone** » Tue May 18, 2010 1:04 am

hibidy wrote:
zerocrossing wrote:
hibidy wrote:
electro wrote:Mokafix Stomps are better than the stomps included in every AMP Sim.
http://mokafix.com/en/effects-overview.html
No offense, but many of us don't DO synthedit.
Why do you think they're synthedit? I don't think they are.
yes they are:

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/4340.html

just curious, how does that post prove they are synthedit?

kaffeekranz · Post by **kaffeekranz** » Tue May 18, 2010 1:20 am

guitarzan wrote:
kaffeekranz wrote:
guitarzan wrote: Software would have less development cost than a hardware (by far, I'd say)
Yeah, right.

Alright...now I remember why I don't come here anymore,,,OK,,,tell me, oh wise ass, how would it involve more development time for software only as compared to the amp sim software contained in the Fender amps, the a/d converters in the amp, the digital hardware to host the amp sim, the tube power amp, speaker and cab?

Ahhh.. well, I'm sorry. I didn't want to insult you.
I thought you were comparing an ordinary amp with any amp sim.
There might still be some development stuff going on, schematics, optimized signal flow, some condensers here and there, but the components themselves are already there and are just being arranged in different ways.
Whereas amp sims tend to get revised over and over again. New components, new techniques, a whole new level of detail coming with every new generation. At least that's what the companies are telling us.
They're virtually rebuilding already existing real life components, which sounds to me like a hell lot more work, than just the ordinary amplifier, built with the same 20 year old schematics and the same 20 year old components.
But obviously we weren't on the same page. I apologize.

PurpleCatfishBettie · Post by **PurpleCatfishBettie** » Tue May 18, 2010 1:37 am

This is on the 'About' page at Mokafix.com:

"Current products are made with Synthedit.

Synthedit workflow lets developers spend their time on audio experimentation.

Our products may be developed in C++ later on, but Synthedit will always remain the core research and conception tool."

That's a real feather in Synthedit's cap.

strangedogs · Post by **strangedogs** » Tue May 18, 2010 3:00 am

Moka's are some of the very best - I don't care if they're made outta drywall mud - they flat out RAWK!

Favorite amp sim and why