Favorite amp sim and why

[hibidy]

Again you guys, fair enough. I am not telling you if they are good or not I'm saying after having bad experiences with synth edit/maker many of us don't use plugs made with synth edit/maker. And before someone SA's in.....NOT being made with SE/M doesn't mean they work.

[futurefields]

i think he just uses synthedit for the GUI, i believe the code is his own, and actually uses some sort of circuit modeling (similar to softube's i think, but dont really know)

[guitarzan]

Software would have less development cost than a hardware (by far, I'd say)

Yeah, right.

Alright...now I remember why I don't come here anymore,,,OK,,,tell me, oh wise ass, how would it involve more development time for software only as compared to the amp sim software contained in the Fender amps, the a/d converters in the amp, the digital hardware to host the amp sim, the tube power amp, speaker and cab?

Ahhh.. well, I'm sorry. I didn't want to insult you.
I thought you were comparing an ordinary amp with any amp sim.
There might still be some development stuff going on, schematics, optimized signal flow, some condensers here and there, but the components themselves are already there and are just being arranged in different ways.
Whereas amp sims tend to get revised over and over again. New components, new techniques, a whole new level of detail coming with every new generation. At least that's what the companies are telling us.
They're virtually rebuilding already existing real life components, which sounds to me like a hell lot more work, than just the ordinary amplifier, built with the same 20 year old schematics and the same 20 year old components.
But obviously we weren't on the same page. I apologize.

Yeah, sorry...no problem. I'm just starting to think the whole amp sim thing isn't really going anywhere....more features, etc, but no real advancement in the dynamics/feel department. Still stiff as a board in most cases. I'm thinking amp sims need to concentrate on the speaker/cab/room groove thing and dynamics more rather than focusing on the minutiae of tube distortion and analog circuitry.

[cliftone]

I have to disagree with the above , I believe amp sims are getting very close to nailing amp sounds. The AT Fender has got to be as close to a clean Fender as I can imagine, when I go from my Stomp IO to my PA, I have the sound that I want. I am sure that a year from now it will sound even better. I still like amps but I really like amp sims.

[strangedogs]

I started on electric in the late 60's and have owned loads of great amps - both tube and SS, including a 1970 Marshall 100-watt Superlead, Fender Deluxe Twin, Roland Jazz Chorus, etc.

I have 5 amps right now - 3 tube and 2 SS (all inexpensive since my giggin' days are done now @ 58 years old) and I haven't even turned an amp on in months.

I love all the new Amp Sims - free ones and commercial ones. If you can't have a good time with computer amp sims then you're someone who I pity. Wish they would have had all these back "in the day" - I wouldn't have had to disturb everyone (for years and years). With proper setup, VST plugins & effects and impulses, etc., there's a whole lotta fun to be had... I'm lovin' every minute of it.

[guitarzan]

I have to disagree with the above , I believe amp sims are getting very close to nailing amp sounds. The AT Fender has got to be as close to a clean Fender as I can imagine, when I go from my Stomp IO to my PA, I have the sound that I want. I am sure that a year from now it will sound even better. I still like amps but I really like amp sims.

I agree that they have the "amp" part down pretty good ... I have done a lot of amp sim beta testing and many times I could dial the sims in close enough to my real preamps/attenuated amps that I couldn't tell the difference when A/B'd - when they were both using the same cab modeling/cab IR.

That's why I say the emphasis needs to be on speaker cab simulation rather than the amp itself, now. Neither genuine tube equipment nor amp sims sound fat and resonant enough through current cab sim tech....way too static, tone doesn't evolve correctly...I don't know really, but something is definitely missing. Something important. Also, the interaction between power amp and speaker sim needs to be more dynamically interesting instead of dead stiff like most are now.

They sound OK in a dense mix or for that Vai/Satriani style that always did sound direct to me anyway, but it just doesn't come close to achieving really killer vintage, resonant vibe yet, and it's a shame because I'm totally convinced it's possible...it's almost like none of the developers have ever really used and appreciated a truly exceptional example of an amp. They are rare...even the average tube amps are relatively sterile compared to a truly great one.

I'm just pointing out the obvious about amp sims...they aren't done yet...especially regarding cab simulation and power amp dynamics, and I'd rather encourage developers to take it further rather than delude myself and the developers that everything is just perfect and the technology is fully matured.

[arkmabat]

http://www.peavey.com/products/revalver/

[redshift factor]

n/m

[redshift factor]

I agree that they have the "amp" part down pretty good ... I have done a lot of amp sim beta testing and many times I could dial the sims in close enough to my real preamps/attenuated amps that I couldn't tell the difference when A/B'd - when they were both using the same cab modeling/cab IR.

That's why I say the emphasis needs to be on speaker cab simulation rather than the amp itself, now. Neither genuine tube equipment nor amp sims sound fat and resonant enough through current cab sim tech....way too static, tone doesn't evolve correctly...I don't know really, but something is definitely missing. Something important. Also, the interaction between power amp and speaker sim needs to be more dynamically interesting instead of dead stiff like most are now.

Speakers move. They vibrate. They buzz.
I do think that is missing. There is a difference in speaker response between one at rest and one being pushed.
If they can simulate that, then they can master ampsims. IK developed their VRM approach for 3D moving sound (and 3D moving mics.) I think they are in the best position to take that a step further and dynamically model speaker response envelopes.

[strangedogs]

and to all of you NOT using Impulses - you're missing the boat fellas. Impulses make it all sound PHAT and RICH (any Sim). Turn off the cabs and load a good impulse with Kefir and Bingo - AMAZING SOUND.

[Funksploitation]

One thing certain to all you guitarists worrying about cab tone etc - your audiences CANNOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE, I promise. You are splitting microscopic hairs, quit yer bitchin and enjoy.

[Agreed]

and to all of you NOT using Impulses - you're missing the boat fellas. Impulses make it all sound PHAT and RICH (any Sim). Turn off the cabs and load a good impulse with Kefir and Bingo - AMAZING SOUND.

Most of the sims use IRs as their cab simulation. Some are quite transparent about it, others use proprietary methods, but there are very few that are doing modeling of the cabinet rather than convolution. Even Line6 has used IRs forever.

Some implementations are better/more sophisticated than others, but it is a mistake to think that you're turning off some other thing that has nothing to do with IRs when you load up your own IRs. You might like yours better, though.

[guitarzan]

I agree that they have the "amp" part down pretty good ... I have done a lot of amp sim beta testing and many times I could dial the sims in close enough to my real preamps/attenuated amps that I couldn't tell the difference when A/B'd - when they were both using the same cab modeling/cab IR.

That's why I say the emphasis needs to be on speaker cab simulation rather than the amp itself, now. Neither genuine tube equipment nor amp sims sound fat and resonant enough through current cab sim tech....way too static, tone doesn't evolve correctly...I don't know really, but something is definitely missing. Something important. Also, the interaction between power amp and speaker sim needs to be more dynamically interesting instead of dead stiff like most are now.

Speakers move. They vibrate. They buzz.
I do think that is missing. There is a difference in speaker response between one at rest and one being pushed.
If they can simulate that, then they can master ampsims. IK developed their VRM approach for 3D moving sound (and 3D moving mics.) I think they are in the best position to take that a step further and dynamically model speaker response envelopes.

Amen....finally, someone else understands! I am not attacking anyone's religion...I just want developers of amp sims to focus on the parts that aren't very convincing yet!! Impulses get the tone right (more or less, multiple IRs = more complex tone), but they don't emulate the dynamic qualities of a speaker and cab....motional impedance, physical compression/limiting, etc. That stuff NEEDS to be there.

One thing certain to all you guitarists worrying about cab tone etc - your audiences CANNOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE, I promise. You are splitting microscopic hairs, quit yer bitchin and enjoy.

I can tell the difference and my guitar parts are almost entirely improvised, so the tone and response are esential to me...if I'm not digging the response, it just isn't worth even playing, let alone recording. I know it would be a different story for those who are doing covers or already composed parts...but still, if the guitar is in a small combo (say, a power trio arrangement) the guitar tone will be upfront enough to notice the lack of true grit in a recording.

@arkmabat - yes, ReValver II and III at least try to address the power amp dynamics and speaker distortion/cab stress....this was at least partially at my request (I was on the development team along with other KVR members) but it needs to go further...plus Peavey needs to get it's shit together and let Michael fix all the issues that were well known before the release deadline....was supposed to get fixed ASAP, now years have passed. I just want somebody to go for killer "boutique" "vintage" tone rather than all these dozens of "me too" status quo sims.

[kaffeekranz]

One thing certain to all you guitarists worrying about cab tone etc - your audiences CANNOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE, I promise. You are splitting microscopic hairs, quit yer bitchin and enjoy.

For me, playing around with amp sims is no fun. But it makes certain things easier.
I love playing on stage, I love feeling the air and I'd like to be able to recreate at least the sound perspective as best as I can.
That's what makes us an artist.. we don't settle for anything, but struggle for perfection.
No matter how uneducated our audience might be.

[strangedogs]

I still contend EVEN THOUGH I'M LOVIN' THESE AMP SIMS - nothing will ever sound as PHAT as a good tube amp cranked up to 10. There's no way they can duplicate that with 1's and 0's...